Dirtdiver

Almost all of DL Europe/SA flights depart early afternoon-evening time frame. A few (late London/Paris) leave around 2300. I think the 15% he's referring to are the few ATL-far east.

For the Europe flights, it generally means afternoon departure, land 0100-0400 on your body. 24 hour layover. Return from Europe is a bus time 0700-1100L (5-8 hour time difference, you do the math). Usually more tired on the return than the trip over.

SA flights are more completely on the back side of the clock.

ptarmigan

For comparison, typical FedEx flight (ignoring the very extensive network that never touches U.S. soil) leave around 3AM, and then 24 hour layover, returning the next day puts you on U.S. time for the flight back, landing before midnight. Outbound, everyone usually had a few hours before show, get to top of climb and each get their turn in the back for a few hours, land and feel ok, head to dinner, go to bed, sleep for about 12 hours and get up, spend the day in the city and then head back. I find that when I get home I'm back on U.S. time with no adjustment.

detpilot

That would make a lot more sense if you'd just used zulu for everything...

purpledog

At FDX we get first class DHs for anything over 5hrs or in the same duty period as a revenue leg. Frequent flyer points add up quickly on DH's to Asia/EU. I haven't paid for a vacation ticket in years.

EZRider

How does one even start to measure 'night flying' for QOL reasons when flying long haul international? Local night (departure or arrival city?), zulu night, local night @ your base, circadian rhythm night, just when it is dark out - there's so many ways to see it.

Departing Shanghai early in the morning (still dark out), you see sunrise over Japan, sunset over the Aleutians, and land in Anchorage in the dark the calendar day prior - did you fly 'overnight', or through the day? Does 'night flying' decrease if you do this in the summer, when the sun is still out @ 9 pm in Anchorage? If you came into Shanghai from the west rather than an 'out and back', you don't even want to begin to guess where your circadian rhythm is at. Same with Anchorage to JFK. Sunrise, sunset, same flight. Is it better QOL if the sun is out for 10+ hours straight (going west)?

You know that saying 'its always 5 o'clock somewhere'? So true. It's always 5 am somewhere, and if you fly 74's, 77's, 340's, or 380's, chances are you will be flying over it . . . a lot!

One man's junk is another man's treasure - night and long haul flying included.

Elvis90

I departed on a 25-hour B-1 bomber flight from Diego Garcia to Rapid City, SD. Left in the morning, flew through the night, then day again, night again, and landed in the morning. Had 3 air refuelings, was not augmented, and it was completely exhausting. Short trips for me now are not a bad thing.

Bucking Bar

Has FedEx started calling people? What is the status of the pool?

One concern with kids in tow is the location of Pilot bases. Are junior Fed Ex pilots still getting Guangzhou? It looked a little like China, then Anchorage, might be in the first decade of a pilot's career. Back when I was looking at FedEx pretty hard (2007) there were complaints that school for the kiddos was very expensive outside the US.

Another consideration is the diversity of FedEx's fleet. The 737 is a fine airplane, but cramped, loud, and just isn't as nice a flying airplane as Boeing's larger jets. (Have no bus experience to compare to) I'd not be happy with a whole career of 737 flying, but that's me.

Fed Ex has a really good culture among the pilots ... a lot of good people there. System Chief Pilot is a good guy.

Another consideration, a "bad year" for FedEx usually means more profit than an excellent year at a passenger carrier. SWA has been VERY well managed and does better than most of the pax outfits, but, the revenue model in cargo and high value cargo has superior long term prospects.

Be happy with Fed Ex or SWA, both are excellent companies.

Bucking Bar

It took 25 hours to brief the approach?

bleedairpacks

This is really comical to read all the apples and oranges chatter about how you'd take a job at a company that doesn't fly at night vs. short haul day trips. Completely different business models and subsequently it's (big surprise here) different flying. If you want to make a lot of money and see the world then shoot for FX or 5X. If you don't mind HOU-DAL-LIT-MSY-DAL-HOU, screaming kids, and drunks passengers, go fly at a pax carrier.

As someone already stated on here - who cares which company you work for. I'd go work for the one that offered me a job first. I've been at my airline 33+ yrs and loved every minutes of it. Am I a bitter old man ready to spend some of the cash I worked my adult life for - you betcha!

Pinchanickled

I think this thread has alot of merit and definently helps us younger guys steer towards a career goal that would suit the individual best. To each their own is true. Noone can honestly say that FedEx is better than SWA, or SWA is better than FedEx. There are alot of points that nobody has mentioned yet. Can some of the senior FedEx and SWA pilots chime in on please?

There's a value to everything. We have discussed primarly inside the cockpit. What about outside the cockpit? What about having the amenities of the passenger terminals? I've jumpseated through FedEx in Memphis before and would describe it as a huge warehouse with a waiting area inside. The passenger terminals have a vast array of restaurants to choose from, Chinese, BBQ, Sandwiches, sushi, etc. Spending your breaks at a restaurant during daytime hours while reading a wall street journal perhaps is alot more fun than spending your break from midnight to 2:00am eating popcorn at the FedEx building where you can't buy anykind of newspaper or magazine.

What about destinations? As American's do we really want to have a long layover in some far off Asian city where nobody speaks english? Or rather have a layover in a Vegas? Do the FedEx layovers give you time during "normal hours" to go out and enjoy yourself?

Passengers do complain, and they do entertain. I think this boils down to your personal preferences. I prefer being around people, call me a people person.

Boarding through a jetbridge is another perk. Although a minor minor perk, it still has value.When I have commuted on FedEx, having to walk out to a plane, and then climb a movable stairway into a non-heated jet at 3:00am was not my idea of "fun".... I hope you can see the picture I'm painting, passenger terminals are created for passenger comfort, pilots get to partake in this comfort. The FedEx mega-warehouse isn't designed for box comfort if you catch my drift. With the

Both companies are rock solid financially. Both companies have a fantastic business plan that will bring more growth. FedEx pays more than SWA, but by trivial amounts. Both companies pay their pilots lots of money that will classify them as "rich" when compared to the rest of Americans. Don't do it for the money, do it for what is a more enjoyable job.

Doing a job for money and time off is not a healthy reason to do a job. Doing a job because you enjoy it will help your mental health and physical health prosper. Some people truely don't want to come in contact with humans and just board a cargo plane and blast off. Others enjoy meeting passengers, the conversations, etc.