And you don't think DAL doesn't vigorously 'defend' ATL or AAL their DFW hub?

 

Virgin America Partners With Sabre to Fuel Growth: Airline Renews Global Distribution System Reach and Moves to New Reservations and Operational Platforms Award-Winning Airline Builds Foundation for Growth with New Systems Infrastructure


Yep, were just making all kinds of changes. Fish, don't bother yourself, nothing you can say or do will change our success. What cracks me up is how much of YOUR time is consumed by my airline.

You should come work for us, as we already have at least one Alaska guy that I know of. How many VA guys are at Alaska? Oooops never mind, dumb question, your, amazingly successful, airline has put guys on the street and spent 700k to put their name on some bricks and sticks. Now there's a great model, right? I hope we never model ourselves after you.

Now go pick up some of those open trips so you can help keep your brothers on the street. Good job!!

 

I love it when you Kool-Aid drinkers get all wound up when someone shines a light under your rock. You should remember this:

“The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.” -- H.L. Mencken

 

Very good Sir...Very Very good. Told ya Capt T-Square, there are educated men on this forum after all. Cheers

 

I was thinking roughly the same thing:

Never underestimate the insight of a man who can quote Mencken.

 

Please Fish, enlighten me with your truths. After all, the powers to be share everything with you, correct?

Fish, I choose to believe not everyone in life is out to screw you. How many successful CEO's do you know? I know a few and a have sampled their motivations? Most are very egotistical, but also are very interested in seeing both themselves succeed as well as there employees. It is very personal to them. Don't get me wrong they will put themselves and their families first. That is their right, their business. Just as I did when I had my own business.

You can continue with your distrust, thats fine. Personally, I think you just enjoy seeing people fail. I'm sure you had a party when your brothers were tossed to the street. Good for you!!

I hear your pessimism, there may even be some slight truths to them. My problem with you is you want to see my family and I fail. What I have I ever done to you?? I have been an Alpa member, I have been furloughed, I have served my country, I have paid my dues. What would else do require, and who are you to require it?

I pray you and your family never know what many of us have gone through. It wasn't the end of the world, but none the less a little tough.

Fish, I don't need your sympathy, but I will have your respect. If I should ever [deleted threats].

Now back to your miserable life.

 

Let's not go casting threats toward one another. Fishfreighter is entitled to his opinion and he has two accomplishments to his name, my first and second post after years respectively.

To reply to your quote, Bill Ayer must be the most truthful person in lives of many Alaska pilots. It's great to have great leaders.

Fish, I value your opinion and want to learn from you. Between two leaders, who's the best? Your choice is Virgin americas chairman of the board Donald Carty, or ex-Alaska ceo John Kelly with all his oil under Alaska's rock. I know how revered Don is at American, but he's also on the board of Hawaiian. My vote would be for John as not only did he walk away with a gold mine after running the stock up to over $70 before his retirement, but he's also got friends in high places to avoid criminal prosecution. He's got to be up there with Lorenzo as one of the greats. Bill Aire is great too, you should take another paycut to feed his bonus.

Maybe you need to get those little religous things back with your meals, it might remind you that he who is without sin can cast the first stone. I'm sure that was way off too, hence the reason I don't cast the first stone against Alaska every other day when the Seattle Times posts something negative.

What shall we concentrate on, good news or bad? What improves life more, concentrating on the fact that American lost tons of money, or that 2011 the airlines are projected to profit over $5 billion.

Maybe you're doing a service to pilots that would like to gain employment at Virgin america by pointing out the negatives so that they could be well informed in their decision before making a change and commitment, since most of the press does show positive. If this is your motive, I give you a huge THANK YOU, as professionals do like to have all the facts before such a decision. Such a motivation is highly commendable.

 

That's EXACTLY the point. What most pilots with SJS don't understand is the damage they do to the profession when they go to work for an outfit like Virgin or Allegiant. They undercut Union contractual pay and benefits.

It doesn't matter why they do it...faster upgrade, bigger jet, furloughed. The bottom line is they are driving DOWN the payscale for like sized equipment. All you need to do is look at UAL/USAir and to a lesser extent, DAL narrowbody pay rates. Those companies went into bankruptcy court and told the judge that in order to compete they had to impose jetBlue narrowbody payrates.

And the judge did exactly that.

And when you talk about work rules, these non-Union companies can change their work rules whenever they choose just as long as they are within the limits of the FARs. Ask FedEx pilots why they joined ALPA. It was because the work rules were in a loose leaf binder so the company could change the rules any time they wanted to.

The saddest thing to hear is when they say, "I have to feed my family." That's the same thing scabs say just before they cross the picket line. Well, I guess you have to do what you have to do. However, don't expect Union pilots to be happy to see you, especially when you come looking for a free ride to work so you can continue to undercut our contract.

I mean you don't see non-Union electricians going down to the IBEW hall and asking for a ride to the job site.

Personally, I think Alaska was right when the legal department tried to strangle Virgin in the cradle.

 

I agree!!! You're a worthless no good scab if you take a job at Alaska when their 12 year pilots only make 175/ hour when Southwest makes over 200 for the same equipment. Their reserves make more and get 15 instead of 10 days off. I don't care what your rationale is, even if you wanna live in SE Alaska. The heavy drivers at the non-scheds should be spit at in the terminal even if they're taking a full paid ride if they make less than 200k/ year! I don't care what their rationale is either, even if they wanna be home based. Suck it up and spend 15 years reserve where you don't live with an ALPA carrier if you wanna be a pilot!!! I'm with you fish!....wow, I don't feel so rational all of a sudden.

 

Sorry buddy, I have been at two ALPA carriers and a Teamsters carrier, and they cost me a lot of money. My last ALPA job paid me LESS than unemployment. Quite simply I took the job at Virgin America because continuing to fly for an ALPA carrier was leading me to bankruptcy. For me, and most Americans, my first concern is the size of my paycheck. I make no apologies for leaving my ALPA job and getting off of foodstamps. If more than doubling your pay and getting off of welfare by going non-union is undercutting, I will happily undercut all the way to the bank.

You also seem to ignore the fact that most unions work to protect the high paying jobs, and make it worthwhile to remain a member. Not so for ALPA. Since ALPA started allowing the outsourcing of jobs in the 1990s (before the likes of JetBlue and Virgin America), there have been less and less entry level jobs at the majors. You also seem to forget in the bankruptcy courts the airline executives spent more of their efforts destroying scope and outsourcing to RJs than they did trying to put in lower pay rates. ALPA alone is responsible for opening the door to RJs. ALPA destroying the entry level jobs at the majors is the reason pilots are flocking to Allegiant, JetBlue and Virgin America. Because of ALPA, many pilots only choice is slogging it out at rotten dead end, poverty level paying, ALPA regionals like Trans States and Mesa or going to vibrant and growing start-ups that are non-union. To bash hard working pilots for trying to get out from under the oppression ALPA has forced them to work under because it may hurt your pay is an example of blatant selfishness on your part. You honestly think it is better for a pilot to live in poverty and collect foodstamps (which YOU pay for) because they are at an ALPA carrier, than it is for them to significantly improve their pay?

The quote you posted earlier applies as much to you as you claim it applies to others. You fail to recognize ALPA's vast failures that extend far before the existence of JetBlue, Allegiant or Virgin America. Until you can admit those failures and the extreme negative consequences those failures have had on the pilot profession, your credibility is non-existent.