More FT's before newhires though.

Not sure about that... the way it was explained to me, the first FTs will start up again with new hires - 1 to 1 with a max of 20 FTs per class. These would be the block of 820 FTs. Starting in June, it is all AA recalls til the end of the list. Anyone hear anything different?

You are forgetting the 250 or so FT's that are before the pref hiring of the 824. These are the ones that were after TWA on the list. The second group of FT's aren't restricted at 20 per month or 1 to 1.

When it comes to this my head really hurts cuz I can't keep it straight.

Isn't it 215 AE F/T's? Those are the guys currently in the schoolhouse. Aren't they limited to 20?

Recalls will be in the schoolhouse in June(welcome back).

After the last furloughee is called the 'off the street' hiring starts. That's where the 824 at 1:1 comes into play.

Is that right or do I need to take more aspirin?

Deleted...........

There are still 200 plus F/T that have APA numbers still at eagle. They go to AA in order of seniority after the furloughs, then the other 824 F/T ( who don't have APA numbers will be the 2:1 ratio with the street hires....... Can you pass me an aspirin too!! :-)

There were about 550 flowthru's with AA seniority numbers, but perhaps 50 declined during the "flow or not" window as per Nicolau's ruling, leaving about 500. The top (and all numbers here are approximate) half have seniority thousands to hundreds above the most junior native AA pilot and they will complete their flow by end of May.

That leaves about 250 flowthru's with AA numbers who are JUNIOR to every AA furloughee (basically stapled from the bottom of the most junior AA furloughee), so after AA makes its pass through all furloughees (first class for June has already been awarded), THEN they'll make class offers to this group of about 250 and THEN hire off the street (or mix 50/50 with another 824 Eagle captains IF that provision in Nicolau's award/remedy remains).

This last group of 250 (or so) start at first year pay and are at the very bottom, so unlike the senior group who got some pay and B-fund credit, many of these pilots might pass on shooting craps at AA, UNLESS things really go downhill at Eagle (which looks more likely every day). I'm told 1200 furloughees out there waiting for that first recall offer and I've heard the 1 for about every 5 calls, so that's about 250 out of the 1200. Personally, I think the recall acceptance rate will increase and result in perhaps 450-500 of these pilots accepting, but that's just a gut guess.

It means, in all likelyhood AA will have to go through bringing about 500-750 pilots through these channels before street hires and how long that takes depends on what's up AMR's sleeve and how many of these pilots come to (or come back to) AA. I'd think the earliest for street hires would be about a year. The key to look for as far as a heads up a few months in advance is an announcement for an application window, then you'll know AA is getting close to street hiring.

b-757/767...?

Good info - thanks ef. Regarding this paragraph:

For those furloughed AAers that bypass the first recall offer and instead take the three year holding pattern (that is an option, yes?), if they then return on the second (and final) recall offer, their seniority remains intact, as if they had accepted the first recall offer, right? Basically, no penalty for taking the three year wait-and-see option?

General question: What's the history of the F/T arrangement? How/why did APA ever agree to it? I don't see the benefit to the APA pilots. Sure, a relative handful got to flowback, but not many. The only benefit to AMR I can see is a small savings in application/interview costs, but that can't be much. F/T's still need all the training and other stuff a street hire would need.

There were some good F/T dudes in my class back in 2001. Not trying to be a tool to the F/T crowd, just wondering how this all happened. It was probably explained to me at some point back in 2001 at AA, but that was many lost brain cells ago...

Yep.....no penalty AFAIK, but I'm just a pup at AA and someone saltier should confirm.

The original Suppliment W/Letter 3 (as termed in each pilots contract) was an agreement by 4 parties (AA,APA,AE management, AE ALPA) to allow 67 RJ's at Eagle (42 EMB-145/25 CRJ-700). In exchange for allowing this the APA demanded furlough protection should AA shrink as a result of it. This protection involved an equal number of RJ captain slots at Eagle for AA furloughees displacing those who accepted the flowthru (known as CJ captains), i.e., it was the ability to bump those flowthru's completing their company imposed 2-year lock-in.

On the Eagle side, in exchage for getting the RJ's and giving up their seats to AA furloughees in the event of furlough, they got not only a seniority number at AA, but were assigned an actual class, but then withheld from that class (freeing up that seat for a street-hire) for 24 months, to allow AMR to recoup their training costs and ensure an orderly transition.

Several things then happened. First, AMR slipped both sides a rusty musket, by making an end run around the agreement and convincing Embraer to build smaller RJ's that could be placed at Eagle freely as they were under the LOA seating/MGW language and they started hiring at AA IMMEADIATELY, instead of the claim they wouldn't hire at AA for 2 years, allowing AE pilots to accrue senioirty at AA. As such, AE ended up with hundreds of the pesky little buggers........and well, I could expand for hours on that.

Next, was the TWA acquisition and then 9/11. The whole agreement then became nuttier then squirrel turds. about 150 flowthru's actually went to AA by 2001 before the music stopped and subsequently perhaps 400 or so AA furloughees came back to Eagle. With the latest 215 to flow, it has directly benefitted close to an equal number of pilots on either side who actually took benefit of its provisions, but my numbers admittedly aren't exact.