Fishfreighter

There you have it.

Lambourne

I'm an expert on that behavior. Having worked with enough of the underbelly of aviation I feel comfortable in what I have observed with the VX pilot group. As they say, if it looks like a waiter, it is paid like a waiter



Our product stinks? From the number of passengers carried I dont think the rest of the world agrees with you. Haven't heard too many of our first or business pax complain about the sleeper suites or service on my flights. Heck I haven't heard too many complaints from anyone. But I am sure YOU know better. How about passing the word to the other pilots dressed as waiters from VX not come over and bum rides on us anymore. Seeing as how we stink. I prefer not subject one of your guys to our service so I'll "just say no" from now on. Thanks for clearing that up. Being civil to you guys wasn't easy. Glad we cleared the air

Don't get block hours confused with takeoff and landings. RJ flying is greater than I would ever want but the Airline flies more block hours. So another swing and a miss for a waiter.

Why? Because you guys are willing to gain market share by undercutting the cost to fly the trip. If we do it, you call it predatory. If you guys do it, you say you're trying to establish market share. You guys are pariahs in the industry and the sooner VX is dead the sooner you guys can go to work for Skybus II or the next version of Sacrificial Aiways that comes along.



L

clipperskipper

Hello VX is still a considered start up, and at $110/bbl you won't see anything but widespread parenthesis on any balance sheet.
VX is not some rinky-dink carrier, but a classy operator. Just check out the T2 at SFO.
Let me ask you how long it took to get ALPO on the property at B6? Oh we're still in a holding pattern on that one.
For the pilots lucky enough to get hired at VX thumbs up, you were in the right place at the right time as a couple of A-320 operators had just gone tango uniform. Scabs are people who crossed union picket lines in order to fly for operators like Eastern II (Shugrue). Get your stories straight prior to bashing pilots on this here forum.

Lambourne

Scab is also a personality trait. I've seen it first hand. There is a common mentality to the group. The VX pilots fit what I've observed first hand.

Crossing a single picket line gets you tagged as a scab. Skewering an entire industry should get you grand poobah scab status.


L

teedog

Fish



I am not a VA guy I am a 320 driver so that narrows it down on airlines who I do work for.



And I am a alpa card holder. and do not hold any thing against va pilotsthier is no reason. They did not cross a picket line they are just a start up airlines...

AUtigerpilot

Its starting to get a little ridiculous.

You guys who like to brandish and covet the "SCAB" moniker so flippantly need to really do a little historical reading and less flame-baiting. As a former ALPA member and member of another union shop, let me say, you haven't a clue as to what one is or how its proper application is made.

Yes, its very sensationalistic to use it and it gets everyone up in arms, foaming at the mouth and the like, but really, to what end do you wish to discuss it when it is completely inaccurate and improperly used/applied? I fail to see any VX pilot flying anyone's struck work, least of which, Alaska.

Do they have a completely different business model, perhaps. Different product? Probably. The genesis of your displeasure and attacks most assuredly are borne out of either an actual or perceived, subconscious or not, inadequacy or fear. Simply put, if Alaska airlines' product is so far superior, their pilots paid so appropriately (as determined by the wizards at ALPA), and your operation so well streamlined, why the animosity and hatred?

Since the dawn of the airline, competition existed. Not until ALPA started putting pilots' wages in one pot have pilots so vehemently attacked each other for decisions outside of their control. Here's a quick question: If the VX financial situation is so dire, what's to gain by having ALPA come in, take dues, **** off VX management, and pollute the water there?

You plan to deny VX pilots to your jumpseat? Be very careful, tides turn and fortunes change. Glass houses and all.

Lighten up, guys.

Lambourne

[QUOTE=AUtigerpilot;985001]
How is their model different? They provide transportation between A and B. They will sell seats below their cost to try to get a foot in the door. They rely on mercenary labor to help offset the losses and try to paint themselves as a "different" type of airline.

All the failed carriers said they were different. I won't name them all but the landscape is riddled with "different".


I don't care if they are represented by the Boy Scouts of America. VX is not a company that I want to see survive.

I am not denying them the jumpseat. I am preventing them from enduring the terrible service we supposedly offer. Trying to help them not be subjected to the inadequacies of our service. Heck, by saying NO I am doing them a favor it would seem.

brianb

[QUOTE=Lambourne;985017]Do us a favor and say something reasonably intelligent and rational. Your getting nowhere with your " shoot from the hip" mentality. If you think branding us all as potential scabs is going to make a hell of a difference, your dead wrong. Give us some fact based information and you might, just might, change some minds. Your current third grade rantings will only deepen the divide. Then again, maybe thats what you want.

clipperskipper

VX isn't different as in low cost, it's business model is different as it targets an upscale type of guest. From ordering a Coke Zero from your desktop to internet service, different. The pay will happen. Any particular reason why VX "needs to disappear"? You sound like a child who keeps getting bullied by some big kid at school.

Fishfreighter

VA is Virgin Atlantic, but you fly VX...you knew that, however.

Agreed. They're not scabs. It is an inappropriate use of the term. I think Lambourne's point is they share the morality and, therefore have potential.

As a supposed "union member" you should certainly know the history of pattern bargaining. We seek to "jack the house" raising wages and benefits packages on individual carriers in order to set the bar for the next negotiation. When outfits like VX come along, undercut fares on the back of low cost labor, who is to blame? Certainly VX management. However, they couldn't do it if they didn't have pilots willing to do the same class and catagory of work for significantly lower wages.

Because, as you MUST know, wages are the single most controllable cost in the airline business. While ALPA and other pilot unions seek to raise the bar, pilots who work for carriers like VX and AGT destroy all our efforts by demonstrating that pilots WILL work for less. A lot less.

Now let me ask YOU a question...Do you see non-Union electricians going down to the IBEW hall and asking for a ride out to the work site? Do you see non-Union longshoremen going down to the Union hall and asking for a ride out to the docks? NEVER.

Its just because ALPA and other pilot unions are too spineless to deny this UNION NEGOTIATED benefit to the very people who voluntarily making it harder for us to improve our wages and benefits.

Management knows how much they work for. And management wants US to work for the same or less. Why is that so hard for the average Union pilot to grasp?

Oh yeah, its because they're afraid they may be denied a VX jumpseat. Oh well, nothing like going for extremely short term personal gain at the expense of YOUR OWN career earning potential.

That's certainly another way to look at it.