Whats the Deal AA with the limited jump seats
#11
I don't like the method, but I think I see the logic. Since APA can't sway AMR, then the only way to end the policy is to make AMR get hurt. If enough of AA pilots get bumped and are forced to use the commuter clause, AMR would (hopefully) realize it is cheaper to let a bunch of regional guys ride, than to use more reserves or cancel flights.
The question is, can Mesaba (or PinneCoSaba if the other MECs join in) have a significant affect on AMR?
The question is, can Mesaba (or PinneCoSaba if the other MECs join in) have a significant affect on AMR?
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ERJ right
Posts: 265
Stop right there, no need to read more. You actually think it's OUR UNION that restricts us from carrying more?
OUR UNION would love to carry as many as there are open seats - but OUR UNION does not own the jumpseat, AMR does. We (APA) are blue in the face from asking our company to relent on this issue. Our CAs do EVERYTHING they can to get as many on board. Given that we are in the midst of heated negotiations for the most important contract of our career, two things ain't happening: 1) the company will attempt to extract AS MUCH as they can in return from unlimited jumpseaters, and b) APA's mission right now is to secure the most important things out of negotiations - PAY, SCOPE and WORK RULES. Unlimited jumpseats is probably pretty far down the list right now, but nevertheless very important for us. We WILL get to it, hands down. We just need to get the rest of the stuff in order.
Please be patient as we are trying to raise the bar for everyone today in the form of an industry leading contract. In the meantime we are very appreciative of the rides on your airlines, and we do EVERYTHING we can within our (AMR-limited) power to accommodate as many of you as we can.
Thanks for your understanding - PLEASE don't turn this into a jumpseat war. Everyone loses then.
73
OUR UNION would love to carry as many as there are open seats - but OUR UNION does not own the jumpseat, AMR does. We (APA) are blue in the face from asking our company to relent on this issue. Our CAs do EVERYTHING they can to get as many on board. Given that we are in the midst of heated negotiations for the most important contract of our career, two things ain't happening: 1) the company will attempt to extract AS MUCH as they can in return from unlimited jumpseaters, and b) APA's mission right now is to secure the most important things out of negotiations - PAY, SCOPE and WORK RULES. Unlimited jumpseats is probably pretty far down the list right now, but nevertheless very important for us. We WILL get to it, hands down. We just need to get the rest of the stuff in order.
Please be patient as we are trying to raise the bar for everyone today in the form of an industry leading contract. In the meantime we are very appreciative of the rides on your airlines, and we do EVERYTHING we can within our (AMR-limited) power to accommodate as many of you as we can.
Thanks for your understanding - PLEASE don't turn this into a jumpseat war. Everyone loses then.
73
That being said, this is an issue that effects OAL guys and doesn't effect you guys as you can just list as non-revs to get the ride. I've been on the losing end of this deal a few times with many seats open in the back and it SUCKS. Your crews have always been very professional and sympathetic and I know their hands are tied. This has been going on for a few years now and I think some jumpseat committees are getting frustrated with the lack of reciprocity. Especially because this rule is only applicable to some carriers and not others.
I don't agree with it, but I'm also not surprised, that committees are starting to restrict AA guys. You said this was far down your guys list of priorities which is understandable, any suggestions as to another avenue OAL guys could take to help fix this?
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 273
I will not play the double standard game in my jumpseat. What's good for my fellow XJ pilots is the standard that I will follow for any AA pilot. It's obvious that AMR management doesn't have much regard for us so I don't think this will hurt anybodys chances on future hiring they already are showing they don't like us.
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
I don't understand why your union restricts jump seats to only one person for MES, 9E, 9L pilots. We take tons of your guys to and from work all the time and we never limit you guys. That is until today! Word is that we will not take any AA jump seaters if we already have a jump seater regardless of how may open seats in the back. Eagle pilots don't worry you are not included in these new rules.
First, AA pilots have gone well out of their way to help get me on an airplane numerous times over the last 20 years. I assure you that AA pilots are your friend.
Second, life isn't fair; as long as AA is bigger and has a larger route structure than your carrier, their management will assume they are superior to your airline and that you need them more than they need you. It is what it is.
Third, the Golden Rule applies.
Finally, commuting requires an exceptionally thick skin. Just smile and move on.
#16
There may come a time when AA's 'holier than thou' attitude and APA's lack of negotiating capital devoted to this issue will have repercussions. SWAPA and SWA strong-armed AA on this issue, and it worked (they're also the largest domestic airline in the US). The golden rule is meant to set an example, with the expectation that your example might one day be followed. How long do you set the example and let others benefit from your charity? The 'originator' of the golden rule (religion) has been engaged in charity for centuries.
APA took concessions after 9/11 and didn't get unlimited jumpseats for all off-line pilots (this is where most other legacy airlines got it, but they took larger concessions than APA pilots did too). Well, now APA is working on a new contract. If the new contract doesn't make any gains for off-line jumpseaters, then perhaps its time to re-evaluate. It won't be easy, though. To get real movement on this issue, you really need to get the support of the pilot groups that already have unlimited domestic and unlimited on all flights. That's asking primarily ALPA mainline pilots to give something up for primarily ALPA regional pilots (and non-ALPA pilots, should union affiliation be an issue?) and pretty much declaring a jumpseat war on APA pilots for a stance that APA doesn't support, but just doesn't fight hard enough for. Should off-line pilots be the judge of APA's own negotiating priorities? What if Delta and United pilots decide to limit jumpseat access to AA pilots to one seat per aircraft, and DL and UA management asks them to apply this policy to all airlines, not just AA - ie, this could back-fire. A very delicate situation indeed.
APA should be given every opportunity to solve this themselves.
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 429
Ya'll have been fighting this fight for how long? 10 years? I got in this business in 98 and it was an issue then. Don't leave guys at the gate start giving them buddy passes if you don't want us to leave AA guys. Doing all ya can? Have you given out 1 pass? Have rode on a pass so another guy could JS? Prob yes for the second but I doubt yes to the first.
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,889
Ya'll have been fighting this fight for how long? 10 years? I got in this business in 98 and it was an issue then. Don't leave guys at the gate start giving them buddy passes if you don't want us to leave AA guys. Doing all ya can? Have you given out 1 pass? Have rode on a pass so another guy could JS? Prob yes for the second but I doubt yes to the first.
Last edited by aa73; 05-04-2011 at 11:16 AM.
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,533
Ya'll have been fighting this fight for how long? 10 years? I got in this business in 98 and it was an issue then. Don't leave guys at the gate start giving them buddy passes if you don't want us to leave AA guys. Doing all ya can? Have you given out 1 pass? Have rode on a pass so another guy could JS? Prob yes for the second but I doubt yes to the first.
I hope this gets worked out, btw.
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