US Airways files TRO

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08-09-2011 | 02:49 AM

#11

MikeNC

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadHead

Seriously guys, how does D P keep his job???

Don't these scumbags answer to anybody?

You would think the BOD would grow tired of all the crap going on...Is there anyone out there that the pilots would trust to heal and bring everyone together?

08-09-2011 | 03:02 AM

#12

Pineapple Guy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeNC

You would think the BOD would grow tired of all the crap going on...Is there anyone out there that the pilots would trust to heal and bring everyone together?

Sure there is. They'll follow anyone who is willing to throw out the Nicolau award and give them their DOH integration.

Absent that - no hope.

08-09-2011 | 03:20 AM

#13

LostInPA

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From: B737 F/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killer51883

this is not just a pilot issue. this involves gate agents, flight attendants, rampers, mechanics, the entire east operation is willing to burn the whole place to the ground. dougie has one heck of a mess on his hands.

Thanks for bringing in some common sense to the discussion and not buying into the anti-USAPA witch hunt.

Anyone willing to defend management's 'statistics' quackery in these cases needs to realize that if US mgmt wins this in court, any other group in the industry is fair game. Doesn't matter whether there is a 'slowdown' or not going on, management just found another bogus 'precedent' to use to force us to work above contract, fly broken airplanes, and not call in sick/fatigued even if you are.

Last edited by LostInPA; 08-09-2011 at 03:21 AM. Reason: addition

08-09-2011 | 04:14 AM

#14

BoilerUP

Doing One Pilot's Job

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LostInPA

Doesn't matter whether there is a 'slowdown' or not going on, management just found another bogus 'precedent' to use to force us to work above contract, fly broken airplanes, and not call in sick/fatigued even if you are.

Under no circumstances can airline management "force" pilots to fly sick/fatigued (61.53) or fly airplanes that have open discrepancies and are not airworthy (91.7 and a good chunk of Part 121). Of course, that says nothing of one's FOM/GOM language on the above topics.

As for working above contract...you don't have to "fly it and grieve it", but if you don't, you gotta know a discipline hearing and even termination fight are possibilities.

08-09-2011 | 04:27 AM

#15

LostInPA

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From: B737 F/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

Agreed totally, Boiler. Looking at US' statements when filing a lawsuit against USAPA (details were in another thread), the company cited higher rates of fatigue calls and aircraft maintenance write ups from the East to the court as evidence of a 'work action'. If doing one's job to comply with regulations as you cited is deemed to be a 'job action' because a statistical anomaly exists between two dissimilar fleets and pilot groups, I'm just worried what implications this can have. Judges make odd decisions, and unfortunately it's always someone else except them who suffers the consequences. I'm not sure what these consequences could be, except the company making a sick call living hell for an East pilot in the future.....

08-09-2011 | 05:29 AM

#16

Sniper

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

Under no circumstances can airline management "force" pilots to fly sick/fatigued (61.53) or fly airplanes that have open discrepancies and are not airworthy (91.7 and a good chunk of Part 121).

Airline management might not be able to - but the judicial branch sure can bring some pressure to bear on this issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostInPA

Looking at US' statements when filing a lawsuit against USAPA (details were in another thread), the company cited higher rates of fatigue calls and aircraft maintenance write ups from the East to the court as evidence of a 'work action'.

A pilot's ability to comply with the law by calling in fatigued or writing up a MX item is being challenged in a court of law. The cavalier attitude to this turn of events by some on this forum is shocking.

08-09-2011 | 07:13 AM

#17

BoilerUP

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper

Airline management might not be able to - but the judicial branch sure can bring some pressure to bear on this issue.

Not even the judiciary can compel a pilot to violate any section of 14 CFR.

If you are sick or fatigued, don't fly - that is your RESPONSIBILITY as a pilot per FARs.

If your airplane is not airworthy, don't fly it - that is your RESPONSIBILITY as a pilot per FARs.

Using sick/fatigue or writeups as part of a campaign to exert pressure on management? Well...good luck proving your case.

IMO, the damning thing here isn't that management is using the courts to push the pilot group, its that (allegedly) West metrics have not changed while East metrics have gone to pot during this "I'm on board" campaign...and THAT will be what ultimately leads to judiciary intervention.

08-09-2011 | 08:10 AM

#18

eaglefly

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Well, I guess that's another way to weed the U East seniority list of malcontents. Doug could use that as an excuse to park 30% of the fleet and furlough/downgrade and have more spare aircraft (for the "broken" one's) and double the reserve pilots. The Line holders could all fly minimum fly/pay lines with huge rest blocks.

Then when the illegal job actions continue, the terminations will stick. Yep, if I were Doug, I'd give them the rope for them to hang themselves with.

Might be the only way to salvage this hopeless mess in the long run...........

08-09-2011 | 08:23 AM

#19

cactiboss

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LostInPA

a statistical anomaly exists between two dissimilar fleets and pilot groups,

Same fleet, same maintenance, same procedures, flying thru same bases.

08-09-2011 | 08:26 AM

#20

cactiboss

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

IMO, the damning thing here isn't that management is using the courts to push the pilot group, its that (allegedly) West metrics have not changed while East metrics have gone to pot during this "I'm on board" campaign...and THAT will be what ultimately leads to judiciary intervention.

Yep, the east supporters on this thread are typical, they ignore facts. Everyone within usairways knows what this is all about, you would have to be blind not to see it.