American Airlines .. Good times ahead.
09-07-2011, 04:37 AM
#11
(retired)
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
Posts: 422
Originally Posted by Flyby1206
Majors traded away scope in exchange for pay/benefits. Scope recovery will only happen if majors are willing to take paycuts, and everyone claims that is taboo in this round of negotiations as well. So which is it gonna be? Cant have it both ways.
It can probably be answered by observing which section most pilots immediately turn to when a TA is laid on the table...compensation.
09-07-2011, 05:00 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,242
Originally Posted by Old UCAL CA
Excellent question.
It can probably be answered by observing which section most pilots immediately turn to when a TA is laid on the table...compensation.
It can probably be answered by observing which section most pilots immediately turn to when a TA is laid on the table...compensation.
09-07-2011, 05:36 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Left Seat, Toyota Tacoma
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by Flyby1206
Majors traded away scope in exchange for pay/benefits. Scope recovery will only happen if majors are willing to take paycuts, and everyone claims that is taboo in this round of negotiations as well. So which is it gonna be? Cant have it both ways.
09-07-2011, 05:47 AM
#14
(retired)
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
Posts: 422
Originally Posted by Riddler
What's the source for this? Last time I checked, the majors all took pay cuts, lost their pensions (except American), and got scope relaxed via sham bankruptcies. Name one airline that relaxed scope and got pay/benefit raises.
You are correct. Comp took a hit along with scope reductions. Without putting words into the poster's keystrokes, most accepted agreements included scope relaxation in exchange for less of a comp reduction. All the poster said was, "...in exchange for pay/benefits." There was no inference of an increase.
09-07-2011, 06:02 AM
#15
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,588
Originally Posted by Old UCAL CA
One has to read between the lines when dealing with board postings.
You are correct. Comp took a hit along with scope reductions. Without putting words into the poster's keystrokes, most accepted agreements included scope relaxation in exchange for less of a comp reduction. All the poster said was, "...in exchange for pay/benefits." There was no inference of an increase.
You are correct. Comp took a hit along with scope reductions. Without putting words into the poster's keystrokes, most accepted agreements included scope relaxation in exchange for less of a comp reduction. All the poster said was, "...in exchange for pay/benefits." There was no inference of an increase.
Our industry (and our country) are losing bazillions of dollars per year, and facing tougher competition from all directions (regionals, LCC, foreign carriers, ground based transportation) not to mention the government pressure and fuel costs that keep rising. It sounds sweet to hear union leaders shout it, but it is ignorant to truly believe legacy carriers will 'take back scope' and get pay/benefit increases at the same time. Period.
09-07-2011, 06:26 AM
#16
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: bus fo
Posts: 63
While there are a variety of opinions about how to structure the rest of our contract, the universal opinion at APA is ALL FLYING OVER 50 SEATS WILL BE DONE BY AA PILOTS! And no we won't be taking a pay cut to get it.
09-07-2011, 06:35 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 238
Originally Posted by Flyby1206
Majors traded away scope in exchange for pay/benefits. Scope recovery will only happen if majors are willing to take paycuts, and everyone claims that is taboo in this round of negotiations as well. So which is it gonna be? Cant have it both ways.
09-07-2011, 06:39 AM
#18
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,588
Originally Posted by LCCescapee
While there are a variety of opinions about how to structure the rest of our contract, the universal opinion at APA is ALL FLYING OVER 50 SEATS WILL BE DONE BY AA PILOTS! And no we won't be taking a pay cut to get it.
09-07-2011, 08:01 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: EMB-145 CA
Posts: 456
Also remember there's growing population of ****ed off regional pilots who aren't going to vote on crap contracts either. Controlling outsourcing has already started, ratios, routes, seats are all ways to do it. It need to be a grass roots movement. This isn't going to be one major wave, but rather more like slowly rising water. All of a sudden the amount of regionals will diminish as they'll have staffing issues with the 1500 hr rule. Low paying ones will go first. More mergers. Probably will have 2-3 super regionals left.
Hiring will be steady all across the board but nothing gigantic for a few years unless the economy turns quickly. 2012 vote will be big for the future of our career. The Anti-union/organized labor movement going on right now could really set us back again.
Hiring will be steady all across the board but nothing gigantic for a few years unless the economy turns quickly. 2012 vote will be big for the future of our career. The Anti-union/organized labor movement going on right now could really set us back again.
09-07-2011, 10:13 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,211
Originally Posted by Flyby1206
If any legacy can do it, AA would be the closest and most realistic candidate to see it happen. If the APA members are willing to have a flat change in compensation while increasing productivity and competitive payscales for 50-100seat jet flying (No F100 rates) then I believe they can take all turbojet flying above 50 seats. Pension would be closed to newhire pilots not on the AA seniority list. I dont know if those conditions would work for other AA labor groups though.
Flat change in compensation? IE no pay raise? IMO that ain't happening.
"all turbojet flying above 50 seats"? The majority supports "all flying above 50 seats". Huge difference.
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