gloopy

Correct. However line dogs can and are getting involved with our reps to mitigate various threats. As for why worry about JB, that rumor keeps popping up now and again and its back up now. Stuff DL was doing at T2/T3 was put on hold within hours of stuff JB was doing was put on hold at T6/T5i. Of the ones you mentioned, JB is by far the largest and due to massive overlap would likely require the most divesture. I have similar concerns with VX and Spirit, but I see them as less likely, with less overlap and divesture and much smaller groups to integrate, if it gets to the level of integration in the first place. Not all transactions do. In fact most don't.

Even a remote chance at a relative-ish integration with a fairly large very young and very low longevity pilot group, especially if the SLI occured pre-divesture, would be absolutely devistating to the DL pilot group.

That said, while I do think DL/JB is possible I think JB's future is far more likely to involve AA and/or SWA. What DL would be interested in that JB has, and that it would even be allowed to get and keep, would not and should not equate to merger rights in the slightest. But with the so called federal merger law, care must be taken on the front end so as to avoid even the possibility of an epic windfal like that. If (big if) DL gets all or most of JB, it would do so only to end up with a small fraction of it while the rest would be divested by sale or by force to, most likely, AA and SWA. With DL and its pilots absorbing the vast majority of that divesture and AA/SWA getting to "grow organically" into the mass stagnation (or worse) that DL inherited while the JB pilots sailed along like nothing happened. That is a catastrophic career harming risk for the DL pilot group for only relatively minor DAL shareholder ROI. There are other ways to structure such a deal on the front end and I expect our reps to engage the company to insure they don't go blindly and wildly into a deal with tunnel vision on only the small parts of JB they would want or end up with.

And yes, as always, by the grace of God go all in the aviation industry. None of us, ever, get what we deserve although, hopefully, from time to time, some of us get what we negotiate. I don't want DL to buy/merge JB. If it happens anyway, I believe the end results would be severely harmful to the DL pilot group if a full merger was the result. Thats why its up to line pilots to keep our reps on their toes about the possibility.

That said, if DL fully merged with JB and there was somehow little to no divesture, and/or the divesture could be backed out of the JB pilot group first, and massive fences could be built and the JB contract language of a 49.99% staple was the starting point, then we could look at a prorated narrowbody relative-ish integration for the top 50.01%. But even that would be risky because without a bargaining agent, there is no way to guarantee even that because, as always, someone is always going to try for more.

In any case, relative to the points of JB representation that you alluded to, such discussions going on at JB would be wise to be focusing on what would happen with AA/SWA and/or a 2-4 airline fragmentation. Neither of those airlines have a great reputation for post merger luv WRT an integrated pilot group that was aquired not hired.

gloopy

When did I "disparage" anyone? We likely differ on what a "fair" integration would look like, but other than that how did I disparage other airline pilots?

gloopy

blueballs,

What are you even talking about? So its settled then, we will merge by total time? And what thoughts/culture am I complaining at? Your collective extent you wish to trust your management team without representation is your business. Just don't expect other pilot groups or even other management groups to accomidate that, especially with what the realities of a relative merger with a very young company would mean to them. Sorry if that upsets you. I'm sure you are an ace pilot. I will concede that you are better than me and I'm cool with that. Honestly. There may have been a time I wanted to be the best pilot in the world, but now I just hope we graduate.

txbusdriver

Wow. You and your ilk are quick to paint ALPA supporters as angry. Please look in the mirror.

Last I checked this message board is an open forum to those that register. I'm glad folks from other airlines post here. Read what they are saying, try to put emotion aside. It's this emotion that has made so many of you no voters. Think about gloopy's fragmentation scenario.

johnso29

I've seen quite a bit of mud being thrown from the other side of the room.

Kellwolf

I'll agree it's a crap shoot in a lot of cases. My last carrier, if we didn't have a union, all the pilots and FAs might as well have been classified as indentured servants. In our case here, it's more of a known quantity in the event of a merger as well as locking in important things like health insurance and retirement with a side of scheduling rules. As it is right now, health care and retirement can be changed at will. Our scheduling rules are in a company manual that can also be changed at will. With a merger, sure we have language in our PEAs for that, but it depends on which lawyer you talk to on how it's going to work if it ever comes down to it. It's even a toss up on who's going to pay for what. I'd much rather have something akin to a scope clause in a standard aviation union contract that has decades of examples for the courts to draw from.

aldonite7667

Only after shots fired over the JetBlue pilots bow.

Snarge

No, that would be your very passive aggressive existence... undercutting the profession that we've worked 80 years of never ending battles.

Battles to keep Open Skies/cabatoge in check and no go by way of the maritime industry.
Battles to keep safety a main tenant so we can call this a profession.
Battles to protect labor rights, employment, retirement and healthcare.
Battles to stop the criminalization of pilots.
Battles to have a grievance process codified by law.
Battles to not be treated as suspect by TSA. (KCM)
Battles to have furlough protections.
Battles to be a Corporate BOD member.
Battles to address Congress and influence legislation.
Battles to protect the jumpseat.
Battles to ensure representation in the CPO.
Battles to not have the terms of our compensation changed unilaterally. (healthcare). My premiums are $22/month, btw. (yes full coverage)


Sometimes we are down, other times we are aren't... but then along comes a 'pioneering' pilot group with rubber gloves, inflight fatigue experiments and a cocksure attitude of ignorance is bliss to show us the new low that we gotta go....

Good Luck....

(no I don't care if you join ALPA, really I don't.)

P-3Bubba

(no I don't care if you join ALPA, really I don't.)[/QUOTE]

I love it!

blueballs

Thanks for spending so much time thinking about us. You're A okay, kisses