DL to get new contract soon
04-30-2012, 12:17 PM
#141
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by dalad
A little birdie told me the company has budgeted more than 1/2 a billion annually to settle the contract. Everybody needs to relax, we are going to get a pay increase and Scope is not going to be given away. I am in the pay me now club, and not 6 years from now with 50% retro like in past contracts. We also need to be concerned about the JV flying. I mean 5 AF flights daily JFK-CDG? 2 x 777's daily LAX-CDG?. Same with ATL. KLM 2 x daily JFK AMS? Look at the JV flights from all our hubs. That is our wide body pilot seats being flown by somebody else. And don't tell me we have it great because we have a couple of light twins daily from PHL and PIT.
I agree, and the devil is in the details; all of em.
We need to nail down JV, Transnational, Holding Company, and Code Share flying. Those sections are really bad. On small jet scope, depending on the details of the deal, we may see more 76 seat jets, but it the downside protections (production balance) can withstand a serious downturn, and force the 76 seat flying to get pulled down with ours, or we fly that flying (on or off certificate) in a down turn, many will see that as a serious change to the status quo.
As for you costing number. I also assume the did. I would say it was not a billion, but well above 500mln. (Day one that is) My guess is about 750 million. Not going to say that will pass, but that is where I assume they are targeting looking at our revenue numbers going forward.
04-30-2012, 12:23 PM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,524
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I agree, and the devil is in the details; all of em.
We need to nail down JV, Transnational, Holding Company, and Code Share flying. Those sections are really bad. On small jet scope, depending on the details of the deal, we may see more 76 seat jets, but it the downside protections (production balance) can withstand a serious downturn, and force the 76 seat flying to get pulled down with ours, or we fly that flying (on or off certificate) in a down turn, many will see that as a serious change to the status quo.
As for you costing number. I also assume the did. I would say it was not a billion, but well above 500mln. (Day one that is) My guess is about 750 million. Not going to say that will pass, but that is where I assume they are targeting looking at our revenue numbers going forward.
We need to nail down JV, Transnational, Holding Company, and Code Share flying. Those sections are really bad. On small jet scope, depending on the details of the deal, we may see more 76 seat jets, but it the downside protections (production balance) can withstand a serious downturn, and force the 76 seat flying to get pulled down with ours, or we fly that flying (on or off certificate) in a down turn, many will see that as a serious change to the status quo.
As for you costing number. I also assume the did. I would say it was not a billion, but well above 500mln. (Day one that is) My guess is about 750 million. Not going to say that will pass, but that is where I assume they are targeting looking at our revenue numbers going forward.
The company already has an infinite production balance of 76 seaters and VERY reasonable (to the point of being disgustingly low) rates to fly them 100% on property. Even if the rates come up to JB190 rates the total dollar amount to fly them here versus at the cut throat airlines is easily absorbable when amortized througout the entire operation of the world's (second?) largest airline.
They don't need to outsource any more jets. They just want to and they are seeing if they can bribe us with our own jobs to let them. If we let them someone gets a fat bonus on their side and likely someone on our side gets a handshake deal for a gravy job somewhere later down the road.
04-30-2012, 12:40 PM
#144
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by DeadHead
Sailing, you make it seem as though we, the pilots, are the only ones who have something to loose by dragging this thing out for a few years.
I think it is equally as beneficial to the company to have a contract signed sooner rather than later, just as much as it is beneficial to us.
I think it is equally as beneficial to the company to have a contract signed sooner rather than later, just as much as it is beneficial to us.
04-30-2012, 12:43 PM
#145
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Philly
Guess I should post this here too instead of just on L&G.
Long time lurker/occasional poster, but I can't not share this one. Let me say right up front that this is 3rd hand so please don't shoot the messenger!
OK, here goes:
Jumpseater with us today claims to have ties to a CPO and was told by his buddy in the CPO that we should see a TA on 18 May. Supposedly the MEC will see it on the 15th, and to us on the 18th. Details include 20% increase to the rates with "COLA" type increases per year later. 717s are in the deal and supposedly via a lease from Boeing after turn in from SWA. SWA pays some penalties etc but we get "new" leases from Boeing. Company will offer 500 early outs, and hiring will begin quickly. 50 seaters reduced to around 125 total. Now for the bad news: Supposedly company wants 90 seaters with some type of production balance. Also they want increased Code share with Alaska. The reason he claims the company wants a deal done quickly has to do with the loan for the refinery.
Again, please don't shoot the messenger. There is no way I can confirm any of this...it is just the rumor I heard today with a lot of details and a firm date (supposedly). I guess we will know soon.
Ready for incoming...Philly
Long time lurker/occasional poster, but I can't not share this one. Let me say right up front that this is 3rd hand so please don't shoot the messenger!
OK, here goes:
Jumpseater with us today claims to have ties to a CPO and was told by his buddy in the CPO that we should see a TA on 18 May. Supposedly the MEC will see it on the 15th, and to us on the 18th. Details include 20% increase to the rates with "COLA" type increases per year later. 717s are in the deal and supposedly via a lease from Boeing after turn in from SWA. SWA pays some penalties etc but we get "new" leases from Boeing. Company will offer 500 early outs, and hiring will begin quickly. 50 seaters reduced to around 125 total. Now for the bad news: Supposedly company wants 90 seaters with some type of production balance. Also they want increased Code share with Alaska. The reason he claims the company wants a deal done quickly has to do with the loan for the refinery.
Again, please don't shoot the messenger. There is no way I can confirm any of this...it is just the rumor I heard today with a lot of details and a firm date (supposedly). I guess we will know soon.
Ready for incoming...Philly
yaaaawwwwwwwwwnnnnnnn
04-30-2012, 12:44 PM
#146
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Ok...
DAL bought Trainer for $150mil. They will put another $100 mil into it to max the jet fuel refining and trade out the other by-products that will come out of there.
They expect it to cut the DAL fuel bill by $300mill. a year.
That means the refinery will be all profit in 10 months at a rate of approximately $25 million in profit(or reduced fuel bills) per month.
I want everyone to remember that an enhanced profit sharing plan is crucial to also keep us protected on the "upside" of Delta profits... So we keep getting larger and larger pieces of the pie when the company tries to say "A contract is a contract" we will be able to keep cashing the bonus checks when they stall a contract deal down the road.
I would like to see a plan that was tallied and paid on a monthly or quarterly basis so we don't have to "give back profits" in a negative quarter or month and continue to reap the benefits of the "up" months..
DAL bought Trainer for $150mil. They will put another $100 mil into it to max the jet fuel refining and trade out the other by-products that will come out of there.
They expect it to cut the DAL fuel bill by $300mill. a year.
That means the refinery will be all profit in 10 months at a rate of approximately $25 million in profit(or reduced fuel bills) per month.
I want everyone to remember that an enhanced profit sharing plan is crucial to also keep us protected on the "upside" of Delta profits... So we keep getting larger and larger pieces of the pie when the company tries to say "A contract is a contract" we will be able to keep cashing the bonus checks when they stall a contract deal down the road.
I would like to see a plan that was tallied and paid on a monthly or quarterly basis so we don't have to "give back profits" in a negative quarter or month and continue to reap the benefits of the "up" months..
04-30-2012, 12:49 PM
#148
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by shiznit
Ok...
DAL bought Trainer for $150mil. They will put another $100 mil into it to max the jet fuel refining and trade out the other by-products that will come out of there.
They expect it to cut the DAL fuel bill by $300mill. a year.
That means the refinery will be all profit in 10 months at a rate of approximately $25 million in profit(or reduced fuel bills) per month.
I want everyone to remember that an enhanced profit sharing plan is crucial to also keep us protected on the "upside" of Delta profits... So we keep getting larger and larger pieces of the pie when the company tries to say "A contract is a contract" we will be able to keep cashing the bonus checks when they stall a contract deal down the road.
I would like to see a plan that was tallied and paid on a monthly or quarterly basis so we don't have to "give back profits" in a negative quarter or month and continue to reap the benefits of the "up" months..
DAL bought Trainer for $150mil. They will put another $100 mil into it to max the jet fuel refining and trade out the other by-products that will come out of there.
They expect it to cut the DAL fuel bill by $300mill. a year.
That means the refinery will be all profit in 10 months at a rate of approximately $25 million in profit(or reduced fuel bills) per month.
I want everyone to remember that an enhanced profit sharing plan is crucial to also keep us protected on the "upside" of Delta profits... So we keep getting larger and larger pieces of the pie when the company tries to say "A contract is a contract" we will be able to keep cashing the bonus checks when they stall a contract deal down the road.
I would like to see a plan that was tallied and paid on a monthly or quarterly basis so we don't have to "give back profits" in a negative quarter or month and continue to reap the benefits of the "up" months..
If you think the benefit to DAL will only be $300M, you are fresh off the turnip truck.
04-30-2012, 12:51 PM
#149
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by tsquare
I have no doubt that it is beneficial for the company to get this done. Buuuuut.. they aren't gonna give away the shop in order to do so. They will have us under contract for as long as they see fit due to the pesky RLA thingy.. Think we can end run that or beat it into submission? Ask APA how that worked for them...
To a point. Going at this hard ball style costs the company flexibility, access to capital markets, and a pilot group working with them. All of that is worth BILLIONS in downstream revenue. They are not going to give us restoration of buying power on day one, but they will ante up to get this deal done so they can get the financing they need for phase II and III of RA's plan. Make no mistake, he like his pilots working with him not against him.
He is doing everything in his power to prove to the industry and the world that there is a better way of doing business. Labor peace is at the top of his list. We now have a balance sheet to support that.
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