tsquare

Ya'll are really spring loaded to jump on someone today for some strange reason, and I can't figure it out. I was asked this:

to which I responded it would depend on what is in the deal. I never said anywhere that I would be accepting of 11%.. you are the ones reading that into my post, and frankly I find THAT insulting. I was referring to "what is acceptable to me". I have had enough of this childishness for one day. rant on without me for awhile.

DAL 88 Driver

Sounds good on the surface. But don't forget about inflation. Not the published inflation data, but the actual effect you experience in buying power due to the real increase in cost of goods and services. 11% YOY is maybe a 5% increase in buying power? And we need 73% TODAY to get back to the buying power we had in 2004 (pre paycut) or 45% TODAY to equalize our MD-88/90 pilots with the W2's of SWA pilots. No, I don't think 11% is enough... even YOY.

Also, don't forget that an increase in W2 automatically increases 401k. As I'm sure you know, it's a company contribution based on a percentage of what you earn. 14% of $234,000 (SWA Captain average W2) is $32,760. 14% of $163,000 (about what an MD-88 Captain makes) is $22,820.

Decrease insurance deductibles. Yeah, I could go for that. But not at the expense of a restorative pay increase. That would be... what is that saying... "penny wise and pound foolish?"

tsquare

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Yeah that would be acceptable.

Aviatrix7

NO! The flight attendants are further behind than the pilots are.

scambo1

First post and you've already shattered your credibility.

nerd2009

What's not insulting??

How about starting with contract 2004 restoration with cola and interest , restoration of retirement, and complete restoration of a pwa decimated by ch11.

Now, that would not be insulting !

That's a start, to begin a new contract with new raises,cola adjustments, and better work rules.

Sink r8

88 Driver,

Do you really believe people here are confused about getting their butts handed to them with inflation? I don't mean this in a condescending tone, but you've completely covered the topic. Even if you hadn't, we still get it: inflation is under-reported, and it's painful. That's obvious.

What hurts also is the shape of our contract, all of it. I think you're too focused on taxeable improvements, but for the most part, we all want what you want. There isn't one Delta pilot that doesn't.

This isn't the discussion. This is about what we'll settle for. There is no T/A to look at, so we're dicussing philosophical principles still. You're afraid that the group will cave, and not get what you advocate. You've done an admirable job (no sarcasm) of presenting your case, and then you've gone the extra mile, time and time again to get people to demand what you demand.

It's a foregone conclusion that the final number is going to be ridiculously far from your number. You are almost certainly going to be disappointed. Almost everyone here knows this. It's also true that we all are afraid that what will come down will not be satisfactory to most. We're all as nervous as you are. The rumored numbers are not enough, but there also isnt a rumored T/A. Just a couple of payrate numbers, and those aren't enough to serve as the basis for an intelligent dicsussion about a contract.

We're all just going to have to wait. In the interim, having a heart-to-heart with our reps, to let them understand that it's OK not to T/A a turd, might be adviseable.

Sink r8

Why go straight to the conclusion? Ask her what she means. It's not like we have a T/A to discuss.

It'll help pass the time.

groundstop

I can tell you exactly how this is going to go.

The TA will involve a 20% - 25% pay raise. Whether it's immediate, happens over 2 years, 3 years... that is roughly what it will be. Also DALPA will adjust scope language/ratio to allow more 76 seaters. It will be tied to mainline growth. They will spin it as a good thing, it won't be. There will be some modest work rule improvements in the TA, but nothing ground breaking.

The TA will go for membership ratification and pass by about 55%-60%.

DAL73n

This is supposed to be an "Opportunity" and if TO and the NC (one CA, Two F/Os) negotiates a bad early TA (with no pressure from the membership to get the agreement like there might be a 12-18 mos AFTER expiration of the current PWA) then they are totally incompetent and based on people I trust knowing the people on the NC if we get in a TA in the next couple of months AND it is forwarded to the membership for ratification I think it will be pretty good (maybe I'm naive). As for payrates let's take a look at a scenario where 11% works (pay rate is not the be all and end all). Daily minimum goes to 6:00/calendar day, vacation goes up to 6:00/day, training goes to 6:00/day, remote training goes to a minute of pay for a minute of running time, DC contribution goes up 2%/year until we reach 20%, reserve guarantee goes to 75 hours with max days on reduced to from 18/19 to 17/18 - haven't done the math but all of those would make a much bigger take home plus more in the 401 (which doesn't show up on the W2). I won't even get into the scope issues (that is a book into itself). Bottom line, we'll need to look at the whole thing (hopefully some of the math wizards will help translate some of the pay/work rule improvements into some real world examples/numbers. Would love to get an early TA that kicks in Jan 1, 2013.