DAL Top End Scope
05-10-2012 | 06:33 PM
#52
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From: B757/767
Its not just 50 and 76 seaters Delta wants. They are pushing hard to put 86 seaters and up to 11500 lbs MTOW at DCI (read Bombardier C-Series). I think the early and hard push is to get scope relief in exchange for $$$$ and put large RJ's at the bottom feeders.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...-proposal.html
Bombardier CSeries Gets Deal While Qatar Goes on Hold - Bloomberg
Bombardier list a "major network carrier" as the launch customer for the C-series with a firm order for 10 airframes and a delivery date of 2013
This is pure conjecture on my part but seems to me where this whole mess is going.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...-proposal.html
Bombardier CSeries Gets Deal While Qatar Goes on Hold - Bloomberg
Bombardier list a "major network carrier" as the launch customer for the C-series with a firm order for 10 airframes and a delivery date of 2013
This is pure conjecture on my part but seems to me where this whole mess is going.
How will they fit 86 seats in a 11,500 lbs airplane!?!
The smallest C-Series weighs MORE then 115,000 LBS. No dice on your speculation.
Last edited by johnso29; 05-10-2012 at 08:10 PM.
05-10-2012 | 08:07 PM
#53
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From: window seat
05-11-2012 | 03:00 AM
#54
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05-11-2012 | 05:12 AM
#55
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From: Left Seat - Right Coast
You guys are correct that the smallest CSeries will be more than 115500 lbs. so that is not a likely aircraft. My bad.
However, the issue is and remains DAL Scope (and the scope at all majors). You guys give up scope for $$$, the bottom will drop out at the regionals now and the majors will get squeezed from the bottom by the DCI carriers and Emirates et al from the top. It won't be immediate but the end result will not be good for anyone if you want to live and work from a US base.
I hope you guys can hold the line. Otherwise, might as well sign up at Emirates before everyone else realizes we're all screwed. Never want to be at the back of the line!
However, the issue is and remains DAL Scope (and the scope at all majors). You guys give up scope for $$$, the bottom will drop out at the regionals now and the majors will get squeezed from the bottom by the DCI carriers and Emirates et al from the top. It won't be immediate but the end result will not be good for anyone if you want to live and work from a US base.
I hope you guys can hold the line. Otherwise, might as well sign up at Emirates before everyone else realizes we're all screwed. Never want to be at the back of the line!
05-11-2012 | 05:40 AM
#56
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Understood, but they say a lot of silly things ... recall this is from the same political body which sold "Comair pilots will get date of hire" to justify allowing Delta to operate three 121 carriers in the Delta network and furlough Delta pilots while hiring street Captains at the Company's own subsidiaries flying the same routes.
05-11-2012 | 05:42 AM
#57
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
See how the thread "DAL top end scope" returned to the moral center of gravity of the issue?
Our top end scope sucks because our bottom end scope sucks. The problem is a lack of a coherent strategy.
Our top end scope sucks because our bottom end scope sucks. The problem is a lack of a coherent strategy.
05-11-2012 | 06:39 AM
#58
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From: DC-9 Neo, Right
Its not just 50 and 76 seaters Delta wants. They are pushing hard to put 86 seaters and up to 11500 lbs MTOW at DCI (read Bombardier C-Series). I think the early and hard push is to get scope relief in exchange for $$$$ and put large RJ's at the bottom feeders.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...-proposal.html
Bombardier CSeries Gets Deal While Qatar Goes on Hold - Bloomberg
Bombardier list a "major network carrier" as the launch customer for the C-series with a firm order for 10 airframes and a delivery date of 2013
This is pure conjecture on my part but seems to me where this whole mess is going.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...-proposal.html
Bombardier CSeries Gets Deal While Qatar Goes on Hold - Bloomberg
Bombardier list a "major network carrier" as the launch customer for the C-series with a firm order for 10 airframes and a delivery date of 2013
This is pure conjecture on my part but seems to me where this whole mess is going.
In this awful proposal we got a couple days ago, it said every FO would have a virtual seat lock until upgrade. Soooooo, (God forbid) these 86 seaters come over and they're gonna have junior FO's at $26/hr fly these things? That's what it looks like, if this were to actually happen.
Of course there's the rumor that we'd fly them for American...
But anyway, please don't give in to any more scope. The thought of seeing bigger RJs and spending more and more years at a regional sickens me.
05-11-2012 | 07:22 AM
#59
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From: window seat
Ok, I almost threw up a little in my mouth just typing that in jest. I can't believe we're about to fall for it in real life.
05-11-2012 | 03:40 PM
#60
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From: B737 CA
That's a big part of it, at both the DALPA and national levels. There's also a pretty big contingent at both levels that refuses to even acknowledge a problem exists, that there's anything inherently wrong about the two-tier apartheid system we have, or that there's anything wrong about trading away some members jobs into the outsourcing maw to make other jobs more lucrative.
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