Here's why I plan to vote Yes.
05-28-2012 | 07:04 PM
#51
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
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From: Poodle Whisperer
Frank-
I think your numbers on the pay increase are a bit overly optimistic, particularly including sick time and best case scenario on ALV increases on reserve.
Good analysis, though. We need to have good back and forth on here.
I think your numbers on the pay increase are a bit overly optimistic, particularly including sick time and best case scenario on ALV increases on reserve.
Good analysis, though. We need to have good back and forth on here.
05-28-2012 | 07:11 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,575
Likes: 315
It used to only say turbojet aircraft, now there is no distinction made for propulsion in the scope section. I.E. they can just go out and buy an unlimited number of Q400s or the like as they can in our current contract. A more pressing issue was making sure geared turbofans are included, and they were.
05-29-2012 | 03:59 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
From: ????????????????
I have not been reading the forums over the holiday weekend but would like to through something into the pot. In my extended family, I have some people on the management side of labor, big business and not applebees. I showed them parts of the TA and the change from our old contract. They laughed at how little we receive with the leverage we had. They had been casually reading about the Delta news for awhile, because I am a pilot with Delta.
Before all of the YES voters go running to the polls. Talk to people who are not in aviation, both in management and labor. They will give you the correct reality check. Management wins BIG with this one and we, as Mongo would say,” are just pawns in where choo choo go”
Before all of the YES voters go running to the polls. Talk to people who are not in aviation, both in management and labor. They will give you the correct reality check. Management wins BIG with this one and we, as Mongo would say,” are just pawns in where choo choo go”
05-29-2012 | 04:19 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
From: Dismayed
Frank,
Thanks for taking the time to put your analysis in writing. I've been trying to stay open but I have to agree with seamonster. This TA is a win for DAL management and while I like some of the improvements, it's obvious the agreement was negotiated from a servile perspective. We just don't think we're worthy of anything more.
I also like to see a good back and forth and hope that we can keep it civil. I'm one of the guys that cares mainly for scope. I think we gave away too much with almost no return.
Thanks for taking the time to put your analysis in writing. I've been trying to stay open but I have to agree with seamonster. This TA is a win for DAL management and while I like some of the improvements, it's obvious the agreement was negotiated from a servile perspective. We just don't think we're worthy of anything more.
I also like to see a good back and forth and hope that we can keep it civil. I'm one of the guys that cares mainly for scope. I think we gave away too much with almost no return.
05-29-2012 | 04:29 AM
#55
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
Okay. Thanks for the clarification. They will be able to have 325 geared turbo-fans with 70-76 seats. Got it. I was under a false impression that any geared turbo-fan would have to be flown at mainline. I could not find it in the TA. The reason is because it does not exist.
05-29-2012 | 04:49 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 946
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From: Right Seat 744
Stupid question from the bottom of the seniority list ...
We just announced a 5% pullback in flying starting after this summer. And if this TA passes, it seems to me like DAL will need less pilots. 5% of 12000 is 600 pilots.
And how does the new work rules fit into all of this?
Any chance of the dreaded F-word happening?
We just announced a 5% pullback in flying starting after this summer. And if this TA passes, it seems to me like DAL will need less pilots. 5% of 12000 is 600 pilots.
And how does the new work rules fit into all of this?
Any chance of the dreaded F-word happening?
FB, to try and answer your question........ a 5% wont cause (IMO) any furloughs. Too expensive for the company. BUT, the ALV will surely drop. Less flying, less hours, less $ in our pockets.
And if this TA passes (god forbid), the company must give a minimum of 90 days notice. I dont think DAL will furlough someone in Jan, and bring them back on in Apr.
Again, just my opinion.
05-29-2012 | 05:04 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 799
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What happens when the company says "We'd like to make another order for widebody aircraft and some more LNB aircraft, but we're not going to do it unless you give us another 100 76 seaters, and let us configure 70 of them to 90 seats.
Will you take this bait as well? What is you're line in the sand?
Frank
Very good post. My reason for voting no is because of the above statement. If after massive pilot concessions over the last decade coupled with massive company profits, when are we going to draw the line in regards to scope? I see the 717's as largely replacement aircraft that the company needed to get anyway. My guess is that the next TA will volunteer to park all 50 seaters in exchange for 450 70/76 seat RJ's.
Once again, well thought out post.
05-29-2012 | 06:00 AM
#60
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
From: 737 ATL
Just be careful not to leave the impression that you are a Delta pilot when commenting on our TA.
Just say you're not DL and there is no problem.
As far as the name calling --
tsquare is a highly valued contributor here. But you have to understand tsquare's style.
His rebuttals tend to be somewhat more, let's just say "personal", than the typical webforum debater. He takes no prisoners. Every forum needs guys like that. Keeps it more interesting.
Here's what I think -
His tone may appear to be overly harsh at times but I think that's just an internet persona. Secretly he probably has a beautiful flower garden, enjoys poetry and long walks on the beach at sunset.
But whatever you do, don't mention Lane Kiffin.
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