I am confident and you are full of crap. Show us the facts on how the 717's end up at DCI.

You cant cause you are lying.

Show us where the TA addresses 717 pay.

Clamp is right...it IS chump change. It's even worse when you add in another massive scope concession with protections written in unenforceable language.

It's not chump change only if you accept the premise that bankruptcy reset our contract forever, C2K is dead, and all increases will be based from the bankruptcy reset. Since I know this is what you and DALPA believe, this is the disconnect in expectations.

Carl

I love how you and the other acolytes always look in the rear view mirror. Compare us to dysfunctional USAirways and that Lorenzo protege Smisek and UCAL.

Sure you can then point to our anemic TA and you come off as sharp.

However, those of us looking forward see the differences to SWA pay, open time 150%, HAL and 19.4% DC and superior per disk and intl pay, ALK and better quality of life items ie crew meals and dead head policy.

Should I go on?

How about that MED pay? Or even just holiday just like every other hourly employee that DALPA proudly proclaimed they were persuing?

This TA is a failure as it falls short of a reasonable agreement. The out one will prove it.

You and I agree on this (not gonna see that too often!:D)... I have no idea where dude came up with that assertion....

Page 3-3 through 3-10 specifically addresses 717 pay. (pdf page 65-72)

Carl struck a chord in you? Really? Look around and look at our peers. They have not helped us at all, and this TA gives us a 19.7% pay hike in 2 1/2 years from now (Jan 1st, 2015). So, in the normal time it takes to get a section six contract done, we will already have almost 20% more pay, a lot more than those so called peers who of course want us to go for more, without their help.

Scope, in two parts. An overall decrease of 80 RJs from today. (150-70). Some people don't want RJs on routes that can't sustain a 717 anyway. Put a 70 or a 76 seater on a current 50 seat route and make money on it. 21 DC9s will go away, being replaced by the same number of 717s, but then add 67 more 717s to the mix. (67+21=88). Where will those other 67 717s fly to? Maybe where current 76 seaters are making money, to expand on that? Yeah. Will the routes the dropped 150 50 seaters just go away? Not all of them, and those 102 70 seaters and some 76 seaters will fill in for them.

Scope part 2 is good. Tighter international scope and tighter domestic code share scope. All improvements.

Work rules, sick leave, early out offer, all pretty good. Look around us, look at zero help, look at a 3 year deal with a good pay bump for 3 years. I really wish I could demand the same money I bought my house for in 05 from a potential buyer, but looking at the fore closed house nearby (AA BK), it's tough to get your asking price. Throw in the fighting spouses next door (UA/CAL) and the nutty neighbor on the other side (US), and you catch my drift. Even the rich guy in the cul de sac with the beemer (SWA) is having problems. His wife wanted to spend too much on her new friends, so he has to push an order for a new pool in his backyard back a few years (30 737-800s).

You can pretend we are in a league of our own, not affected at all by any of our direct competitors (in addition to the NMB), or you can look around and see that in reality, we've got a pretty good offer. Go to a roadshow.

I totally missed that. Thought it only referenced DC 9 pay. Opps!

Yeah, I'm sorry that I compared us to the largest airline in the world even if they do put the fun in dysfunction. Delta TA A320 rate= $209/hr, UAL A320 rate= $137/hr. Our A320 Captains will make as much as a USAirways A320 cockpit crew. It sure appears that dysfunction hasn't paid.

Now we're getting somewhere. What has SWAPA's path to their passenger industry leading pay rates been? Dysfunction or something else? Oh, at the end of this TA we'll have a 737 rate of $216.92 with 15% DC. They have $216.22 with a 9.4% 401K match. They're amendable 9/30/12. I hope they raise the bar.

As to the rest, I can cherry pick any point in somebody else's contract and make us/them look bad. How does SWA every day on short call sound? How about their ability to be deadheaded on a jumpseat?

Your point about HAL is wrong...they have a targeted plan that pays up to 19.4% for some individuals with low frozen DB's...just like the North pilots have at Delta. Their new hires get 15%, just like under this TA. But their A330 pilots currently make $199/hr. Under this TA ours will make $255/hr. Still want to use them as an example?

Alaska and crew meals? I'll take our $35 per hour higher payrate with this TA and buy my own, thanks. I remember what crew meals were like when we had them....:( They do have a nice deadhead policy, and are a great operation. I hope they can remain standalone.

You sure you want to?

You undershot, Bill.

This TA contemplates a decrease of 150 RJs, not 80.

The 717 is a DC-9. It will clearly get DC-9 rates. If we can't agree, it goes to an arbitrator and I'll gladly risk it because we will get DC-9 pay for it, period. Zero risk. And under our current contract, management has zero, nada, zilch ability to put the 717 at DCI. None whatsoever. They can't do it unless we're on strike and if we're on strike putting DC-9's at DCI won't get them a drop in the ocean of what they bleed every day even if they can find scabs to fly the up-gauged RJ routes. Empty threat. Bluff called.