New flaw in TA scope
05-30-2012 | 06:22 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 369
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From: No to large RJs
In 1999 it was reported in the press as fact. Also, as a matter of fact, in their histories ASA & Comair had executed every order and option they had ever taken. Every one. By the time Contract 2000 was executed, those airplanes were already starting to show up on the ramp.
You are arguing our contract wasn't realistic, which is why it wasn't successful. Whose definition of success? It seems you are carrying MGT's water. You are making my point that ratios are not followed and in the end MGT does what they want. The only way to ensure ratios are followed is to have none at all. You do that by doing the flying yourself.
I've not heard any rumors of a 76 seat aircraft order. There have been some proposals, but no contracts that anyone in my network is aware of. If you have details, share them.
As much as is possible, we have to deal with known facts.
As much as is possible, we have to deal with known facts.
If extrapolate known facts to their farthest conclusion, DCI shrinks from 46% of our mainline domestic flying to 22% under this agreement.
To me that means more Delta flying by Delta pilots who are ALPA members and represented by my MEC.
To me that means more Delta flying by Delta pilots who are ALPA members and represented by my MEC.
History is not on your side mon. IMO, if this passes, you will come to regret that decision. But somehow I'm sure ALPA will bear no responsibility in your mind and unity will be the utmost of importance.
05-30-2012 | 06:22 PM
#102
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Obviously 10 is unsustainable as a fleet type. It takes 18 to 24 months to get and order from Bombardier due to downstream suppliers. I suspect that plans A & B have been executed, but that information is being with held.
05-30-2012 | 06:24 PM
#103
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
That there is some serious fuzzy math. Pass whatever it is you are smokin Rasta Buck Bar.
History is not on your side mon. IMO, if this passes, you will come to regret that decision. But somehow I'm sure ALPA will bear no responsibility in your mind and unity will be the utmost of importance.
History is not on your side mon. IMO, if this passes, you will come to regret that decision. But somehow I'm sure ALPA will bear no responsibility in your mind and unity will be the utmost of importance.
Cheap shot noted.
05-30-2012 | 06:28 PM
#104
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
Corrected my math to the 7th grade level 
76 seat fleet = equivalent mainline flying percentage
< 153 = Slightly below status quo
154 to 163 = 52.4% mainline ... approximate status quo (no gain)
164 to 173 = 55.6% mainline
174 to 183 = 56.5% mainline
184 to 193 = 57.4% mainline
194 to 203 = 58.3% mainline
204 to 213 = 59.5% mainline
214 to 223 = 61% mainline
What makes this different than 2000, is that Delta has not committed to the 76 seat order, so we don't exactly know what management's intentions are.
(ACL65 ... can you fix, or delete, post #70 in this thread?)
76 seat fleet = equivalent mainline flying percentage
< 153 = Slightly below status quo
154 to 163 = 52.4% mainline ... approximate status quo (no gain)
164 to 173 = 55.6% mainline
174 to 183 = 56.5% mainline
184 to 193 = 57.4% mainline
194 to 203 = 58.3% mainline
204 to 213 = 59.5% mainline
214 to 223 = 61% mainline
What makes this different than 2000, is that Delta has not committed to the 76 seat order, so we don't exactly know what management's intentions are.
(ACL65 ... can you fix, or delete, post #70 in this thread?)
05-30-2012 | 06:32 PM
#105
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
One way to find out what is on the order books in Canada!
Look at the current orders, even with ghost customers and then look at the orders after the TA passes.....Kind late but you know that.
I would venture to bet that the C-Series could be traded for on a four to one at a min.
05-30-2012 | 06:35 PM
#106
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
Bombardier states they have a major(not RJET) north american airline that has placed orders for the C-Series. They will not release the details of who it is.
Bar, look at where we were, where we are, what is being presented, and then how it fits with where we will be in three to five years. A lot of what I post is strategic thinking, but the lines can be drawn it a fairly straight line.
05-30-2012 | 08:30 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2010
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Forget it-let Lumberg keep spinning his yarn.
05-30-2012 | 08:46 PM
#109
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Joined: Nov 2008
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From: MD-88 F/O
Early last year, had a former senior member of flight ops on the jumps seat and asked him if Delta was looking at the CS Series....he stated that they had looked it over pretty hard and that they had been in the cockpit (not sure if it was the cockpit mockup or what) and that it was definitely an interesting aircraft. Flash forward about a month later during a Steve Dickson road show and I asked him if Delta was looking at the CS Series.....he looked around and stated that he wasn't familiar with the aircraft. I believe Delta has been watching this airframe for some time. It would be a perfect replacement for the 717 and older 88 (CS 100, 300, 500) all same type....CS 100 sold as replacement for future "uneconomical 76 seaters" in 2015....CS 100 allowed to go to DCI and then bye-bye narrow body fleet....I hope that I am wrong on this second part... Just another black helicopter moment....
05-30-2012 | 08:46 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
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Gentlemen,
I am an RJ driver for PSA on the US Airways side of things. Please Please Please for the love of god and this industry DO NOT give up SCOPE. I for one did not see myself sitting in the right seat for five plus years flying an RJ. My aspiration was to move on and continue my career with a legacy carrier. If the Legacy's continue to give into management and outsource mainline flying to these cut throat cheap operators that fly the most uncomfortable POS in the sky, the hopes of all regional pilots will be lost, because there will be nothing to move onto or into. I know that pay is important to all pilots and I for one would never tell you guys what to do, but please just look at the bigger picture. Do not sacrifice the product. Republic Holdings and TSA already fly the E170/175 for you guys. Next thing you know it will be the 190 then the guppy at $25.00 an hour, and you know what, all the Embry Riddle Grads and everyone else out there with Shiny Jet Syndrome will chomp at the bit to fly it. Who would not want a chance, but it all comes with a price. I am not putting anyone down here, all I am asking is that you gentleman take a hard stand on outsourcing and please keep the flying in your house! I would like to fly with you someday, and I will not have that opportunity if the majority of your flying is outsourced to the lowest bidder.
Thanks for listening and fly safe!
I am an RJ driver for PSA on the US Airways side of things. Please Please Please for the love of god and this industry DO NOT give up SCOPE. I for one did not see myself sitting in the right seat for five plus years flying an RJ. My aspiration was to move on and continue my career with a legacy carrier. If the Legacy's continue to give into management and outsource mainline flying to these cut throat cheap operators that fly the most uncomfortable POS in the sky, the hopes of all regional pilots will be lost, because there will be nothing to move onto or into. I know that pay is important to all pilots and I for one would never tell you guys what to do, but please just look at the bigger picture. Do not sacrifice the product. Republic Holdings and TSA already fly the E170/175 for you guys. Next thing you know it will be the 190 then the guppy at $25.00 an hour, and you know what, all the Embry Riddle Grads and everyone else out there with Shiny Jet Syndrome will chomp at the bit to fly it. Who would not want a chance, but it all comes with a price. I am not putting anyone down here, all I am asking is that you gentleman take a hard stand on outsourcing and please keep the flying in your house! I would like to fly with you someday, and I will not have that opportunity if the majority of your flying is outsourced to the lowest bidder.
Thanks for listening and fly safe!
BTW, Shiny Jet Syndrome isn't exclusive at the regionals. It's alive and well and it's called the 717!
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