I understand why management wanted it, but why did DALPA and the majority of the pilots agree to it when UAL ALPA held the line at 50 seat regionals in their C2000?

 

I don't think I've ever heard of a CPA that establishes minimum block hours or seats. Delta wouldn't back themselves into that corner. ASA had 70 seats in their CRJ700's and Delta removed 5 seats to provide a 2 class service. Maybe you should attend a road show, or call your Rep or the DPN to address your concern. I really think you're getting wrapped up on one thing, when you should be basing your vote on the entire TA.

 

First, there is no honor in "holding the line at 50 seats." UAL, US Air and American all broke unity by allowing their flying to be outsourced. They are far from innocents.

Until then, Delta's flying was "protected" by ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy. When Delta acquired airlines those airlines' pilots were merged into the Delta seniority list. Alter ego replacement of Delta pilots by a company operated or controlled entity just wasn't an issue because all Delta flying was performed by Delta pilots.

The key change was the decision that ASA and Comair were allowed to be bought and operated as a separate subsidiaries of Delta Air Lines flying Delta passengers. The change was sold to Delta pilots in a number of ways, most of them ugly and factually flawed. A few were true. Here is the list as I can recall them:

• Delta management did not want / would not allow a merger
• Contract 2000 offers improved scope (which was not necessary before ALPA allowed their merger policy to be subverted)
• ASA pilots are unqualified (drunks, morons, uneducated, etc ...)
• We must preserve "mainline" as a separate standard and avoid unity which might drag us to their level
• Separation provides a more direct route for military pilots to get the jobs they deserve

When the books are written about ALPA's demise, the Delta MEC at the end of the 20th Century will get their own chapter. The then MEC Chairman is rather ignominiously is quoted as saying that he was a Marine long before being a Delta pilot or ALPA member. A fine statement at a Marine Aviation function, but a misplaced sense of loyalty for a gentleman running a Master Executive Counsel for at an ALPA pilot group.


Our scope problems are a direct product of our unity problem.

 

What??????????????? Pujols can't hit one as far out in left field as you are right now.

 

Thanks for the history lesson. It does explain a few things.From what I know prior to DAL allowing regional CRJ-100/200s the problem was limited to BAE-146s and turboprops. These new relatively efficient, fast and comfortable small jets posed a much greater encroachment on "mainline" flying. 70, 76, & 76+ seaters are further and more formidable encroachments. This is a battle at the margin. Every time a pilot group allows a bulge in the line it becomes harder to hold the line.

 

C2000 or C2K, was the first contract at DAL that limited 70 seat RJ's. Prior to C2K, DAL was allowed unlimited regional aircraft of any powerplant, or weight if used in passenger service (there was a weight limit for use in cargo ops).

 

A little off subject, but screw the Miami Heat and Lebron...

Go Celtics!

 

But, prior to C2K outsourcing was not tolerated as a matter of ALPA policy. Prior to year 2000 Delta merged airlines rather than creating alter ego carriers.

 

So there was an ALPA policy change since 2000? Really?

Every DAL contract since the early 80's has allowed small aircraft flying to be performed for DAL. If this is/was against ALPA policy then Duffy, Babbit, Woerthe, Prater and Moak need to stop signing the agreements.

Here is the language from the Delta 86 contract:

AGREEEMENT
Between
DELTA AIR LINES, INC
And
THE AIR LINE PILOTS
In the Service of
DELTA AIR LINES, INC.
As Represented by
THE AIRLINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION,
INTERNATIONAL

THIS AGREEMENT is made and entered into in accordance
With the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended, by and
Between DELTA AIR LINES, INC (hereinafter known as the“Company”),
Represented by the AIR LINE PILOTS in the service of DELTA AIR LINES, INC., as represented by the AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATIOIN, INTERENATIONAL (hereinafter known as the “Association”)

SECTION 1
RECOGNITION AND SCOPE
A. RECOGNITION
1. The Air Line Pilots Association, International, has furnished the Company proof that a majority of the airline pilots employed by the Company have designated the Association to represent them and in their behalf negotiate and conclude an Agreement with the Company as to rates of pay, rules and working conditions covering the pilots in the employ of the Company in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended.
2. Nothing in the Agreement shall be construed to limit or deny any pilot hereunder any rights or privileges to which he may be entitled under the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended.

B. SCOPE
1. Except as permitted in Paragraph 2 of this Section 1.B., all present or future flying performed in and for the service of the Company, or by a holding company of which the Company is a subsidiary, shall be performed by the pilots on the Delta Air Lines system seniority list in accordance with the terms and conditions of the Agreement of any other applicable agreement between the Company and the Air Line Pilots Association. There shall be no wet-leasing or subcontracting of the Company’s flying. It is specifically understood that this paragraph includes, but is not limited to, all revenue flying, ferry flights, charters, wet leases and /or subcontracting the Company may perform for others and flight training (except fro initial flight training conducted by the factory or manufacturer for the Company).
2. It is agreed that the Company shall not:

a. Acquire and operate as a separate entity any existing airline which operates aircraft with more than seventy (70) seats and which would be owned, controlled ( ie.,(a) operational control, (b) appointment of a majority of the Board of Directors, (c) ownership of majority of stock) or operated by the Company, whether directly or indirectly through a subsidiary controlled by the Company, or by a holding company of which the Company is a subsidiary, unless the flying for such airline is performed by pilots on the Delta Air Lines system seniority list in accordance with the terms of this Agreement or any other applicable agreement between Delta Air Lines and the Air Line Pilots Association, except that this subparagraph shall not preclude separate operation of an acquired airline for a phase-in period of up to one year after the effective date of the acquisition under the seniority list of the acquired airline, provided that no pilot on the Delta Air Lines system seniority list is furloughed during such phase-in period.
b. Establish any new airline which operates aircraft with more than seventy (70) seats and which would be owned, controlled or operated by the Company, whether directly or indirectly through a subsidiary controlled by the Company, or by a holding company of which the Company is a subsidiary, unless the flying for such airline is performed by pilots on the Delta Air Lines system seniority list in accordance with the terms of this Agreement or any other applicable agreement between Delta Air Lines and the Air Line Pilots Association.
c. Sell, lease, or otherwise transfer any aircraft owned, leased or operated by the Company, or any new or used airline aircraft on firm order from the manufacturer of owner thereof to any airline which operates aircraft with more than seventy (70) seats and which is owned, controlled or operated by the Company, whether directly or indirectly through a subsidiary controlled by the Company, or by a holding company of which the Company is a subsidiary , unless the flying for such airline is performed by pilots on the Delta Air Lines system seniority list in accordance with the terms of the Agreement of any other applicable agreement between Delta Air lines and the Air Line Pilots Association.
3. In the event the Company acquires an airline that operates aircraft with more than seventy (70) seats in accordance with Paragraph B.2. (a) of this Section:
a. The Company agrees to merge with the acquired airline within one (1) year after the effective date of the acquisition, subject to applicable legal and regulatory requirements;
b. The integration of the seniority lists of the two pilot groups shall be subject to approval by the Company; and
c. Wages and benefits fro the pilots of the acquired airline, to be effective upon the integration of the two seniority lists, shall be negotiated between the Company and Association.

Nothing herein shall entitle either the Company or the Association to negotiate any other provision of the Agreement except as this Agreement otherwise permits.

 

Yes.

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