uaav8r

Hello DAL guys. Your peers at UA and AA are anxiously waiting to see if your new TA passes. It is obvious that we all have a horse in this race. The scope section of your contract will have huge ramifications for the entire airline pilot profession. As a 15 yr UAL pilot I know firsthand the damage that large RJ's (70+ seats) can have on the career of a major airline pilot. Though I'm sure you are already well aware of it, I wanted to throw in a comparison of the large RJ fleet sizes at AA,UA & DL. These numbers may not be exactly precise but they are fairly accurate.

Current American Eagle large RJ fleet - 47
Current United Express large RJ fleet - 152
"Proposed" Delta Connection large RJ fleet - 325

I realize that the number of 50 seat RJ's and large turboprops is a variable that has not been mentioned here. History has shown, however, that these smaller regional aircraft do not pose nearly the threat to our mainline fleets that these "large RJ's" do. Due to range and CASM issues it is much more difficult to replace an MD80/B717/737 with a Q400 or EMB145. An E175 or CRJ900, however, can and do replace mainline aircraft. I realize that scope is but one section of this TA, but it's career effects are huge. Thank you in advance for your leadership in this pivotal year of airline contracts.

Sink r8

Thanks for posting. I can't cut and paste it now, but the presentation handout for this TA has a page showing RJ's at DAL, UAL and AMR.

It seems AMR, either under their 1113, or a USAirways merger, woul leapfrog us in numbers and size, and that UAL has potentially unlimited 50 and 70 seaters. The language is definitely set up to sell this, but it doesn't match your numbers.

Can someone please post the page titled RJ Fleet Count Comparison, so this can be discussed?

Thanks.

Bucking Bar

uaav8r,

Thank you for your post and your interest. You may already know that our current contract has a provision allowing 3 76 seat RJ's for every 1 additional mainline jet above a fleet count of 767. Once awarded, that number can not be drawn down, even if the mainline fleet subsequently shrinks. Under our existing deal, those new 76 seaters would replace older 70 seaters as they come out of service, but the ramp up would be slower than it would be under this TA. Figure 2015 instead of 2013.

I think it helps you that we held the line at 76 seats. Not that we are proud of the 76 seat line, but at least it is not getting worse.

Bill Lumberg

Delta to slash use of 50-seat planes, make more use of bigger, more comfortable planes


Minneapolis / St. Paul Business Journal by Ed Stych, Web Producer
Date: Thursday, June 7, 2012, 12:43pm CDT -

Delta Air Lines Inc. would remove 218 of its 50-seat planes from its fleet if a new labor agreement with the carrier's pilots union is approved.


Ed StychWeb Producer- Minneapolis / St. Paul Business JournalEmail | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn
Delta Air Lines Inc. would remove 218 of its 50-seat planes from its fleet if a new labor agreement with the carrier's pilots union is approved.

MinnPost reports that the deal calls for capping the number of 50-seat planes that can be flown for Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) to 125 planes.

The airline contracts with regional carriers, such as Pinnacle Airlines and SkyWest, to fly 343 of the 50-seat planes regionally. So the 125-plane cap would be a 64 percent reduction from the current fleet.

The end result would be that travelers flying out of Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport — where Delta is dominant — will fly on bigger planes more often than in the past.

Delta has worked out a deal with Southwest Airlines Co. to lease 88 Boeing 717s, which seat 117 people.

"If the pilots agreement is ratified, we would be in a position to begin adding these 717s to our mainline fleet next year," Delta CEO Richard Anderson told Delta employees, as reported by MinnPost. "We would mostly use them to replace inefficient 50-seat regional jets."

Pilots will start to vote later this month on the proposed contract.

uaav8r

Let me ask this about the new DL TA in regards to scope. If Delta Connection acquires all 325 large RJ's permitted under this TA and then the price of oil spikes to $160/barrel, or god forbid another 9/11 occurs (both circumstances beyond the company's control) and Delta claims that they are forced to park MD88's, 717's and shrink mainline to well below the 767 aircraft threshold,....Does Delta Connection get to keep the 325 large RJ's?

DeadHead

So how many times you gonna post this article Bill?

80ktsClamp

You missed a couple threads on posting that article, Bill. Make sure every one of them gets it. That way we will see the light!

mynameisjim

I find it notable that Northwest Airlines had 320 airplanes at the time of the merger.

johnso29

Unfortunately, it's unlikely to get better. APA has a proposal to UsAir management for 600 PLUS large RJ's. Actually, I think its twice the size of the proposed fleet in our TA. I find it discouraging that this is what the pilots are offering to avoid what AMR wants to impose. And seeing as how they're in bankruptcy, they'll probably end up somewhere in the middle.

Bill Lumberg

The other argument for AA is there is a reason they are BK, they have too many 50 or less seaters (37 seat or 40 seat E135s and E140s), and not enough 70 seaters. If there is going to be an RJ anyway on a route, and 50 seaters are very inefficient, would you want a larger RJ on there to hopefully make some money instead of burn it? If the route does very well, then hopefully the airline would have the next step up to upgrade the route. AA's next bigger plane is an MD80, which may be too large. Delta would have 717s which might be the perfect next size up. AA doesn't have that ability right now. If they merge with US, they will have A319s, and AA does have orders for A319s eventually.