More planes added....
06-21-2012 | 04:11 AM
#41
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
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From: 777B
Exactly - Did Delta cry foul a couple years ago when all ASA's ramp functions in ATL were switched over to became Delta's? Or could Delta do it cheaper than the new management (SKW)?
Why did Delta fire 800 Comair (oops, Regional Elite) CVG ramp employees in 2010 and hire 150 extra on the Delta side to make up the difference? They could have fired the Delta side if cost was such an issue.
Why did Delta create Regional Holdings Systems (aka red headed stepchildren) in 2009 then change the name to Regional Elite, combining Comair and Mesaba ramp services into a single Delta subsidiary? Those same guys currently park and service DCI and mainline, makes no difference.
If Regional Elite (owned by Delta) is cheaper than (real) Delta ramp employees, why haven't they taken over ramp operations all across the Delta route structure? Do Delta's ramp employees have "ramp scope" preventing the Delta beancounters from outsourcing their jobs to REAS?
Why did Delta fire 800 Comair (oops, Regional Elite) CVG ramp employees in 2010 and hire 150 extra on the Delta side to make up the difference? They could have fired the Delta side if cost was such an issue.
Why did Delta create Regional Holdings Systems (aka red headed stepchildren) in 2009 then change the name to Regional Elite, combining Comair and Mesaba ramp services into a single Delta subsidiary? Those same guys currently park and service DCI and mainline, makes no difference.
If Regional Elite (owned by Delta) is cheaper than (real) Delta ramp employees, why haven't they taken over ramp operations all across the Delta route structure? Do Delta's ramp employees have "ramp scope" preventing the Delta beancounters from outsourcing their jobs to REAS?
Just reading the words "regional elite" makes my skin crawl and the hair stand up on the back of my neck. As a commuter, when I get to the counter and "regional elite" is working the gate, I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that my commute will NOT be stress free.
06-21-2012 | 04:18 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,629
Likes: 15
From: blueJet
And for maintenance - Delta currently owns a CRJ100/200/700/900/ERJ/EMB-170 MX facility in CVG that can handle 200 aircraft, plus do heavy checks in-house. These FAA-certified mechanics have maintained Delta's DCI aircraft for years.
I'm sure Delta could slap "Delta" patches over their "Comair" patches, let them fly S3 instead of S3C, tell them they get profit sharing, and call it a day.
Delta's 70 CRJs plus Comair's 44 CRJs is way under what they are capable of handling. Or offer a small bonus to have them move to BOS, RDU, MCO, DTW, JFK, or wherever Delta wants to stage their CRJs. Nevermind, they're already there.
Plus, they're already kinda Delta employees.
I'm sure Delta could slap "Delta" patches over their "Comair" patches, let them fly S3 instead of S3C, tell them they get profit sharing, and call it a day.
Delta's 70 CRJs plus Comair's 44 CRJs is way under what they are capable of handling. Or offer a small bonus to have them move to BOS, RDU, MCO, DTW, JFK, or wherever Delta wants to stage their CRJs. Nevermind, they're already there.
Plus, they're already kinda Delta employees.
06-21-2012 | 04:50 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,629
Likes: 15
From: blueJet
Ewww. Maybe Delta should have called them Honeybadger Elite. If you guys have this reaction, I wonder how our passengers feel?
06-23-2012 | 07:48 PM
#44
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
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From: Light Chop
I am looking for improvements in many areas, and this TA does that. There's a short duration with a good pay raise for only 3 years. Scope is debatable, but I want those 218 50 seaters gone, sooner. That is key. Total numbers are most important to me. I think the larger RJs will just fill in for the larger amount leaving. Then throw in a favorable ratio, and it works. The international scope is also an improvement. I don't see the 717s coming if the 50s stay longer. Too much capacity (717s+ all of the 50s staying) That makes sense.
Throw in the fact that no other legacy is helping our cause at all, and things are ripe for other interesting "plays" in this industry now, I think this TA is a good deal for us right now. That's why I went from a NO on any deal a month ago to a YES today.
Throw in the fact that no other legacy is helping our cause at all, and things are ripe for other interesting "plays" in this industry now, I think this TA is a good deal for us right now. That's why I went from a NO on any deal a month ago to a YES today.
, would you sign off on this in 2015? 1.B.43.b. “New large widebody aircraft” means a B-777-300 or an A350 added to the Company’s fleet as of [DOS].
1.B.46. “Permitted aircraft type” means:
1.B.46.e. one of up to 102 aircraft configured with 51-70 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“70-seat aircraft”), and
1.B.46.f. one of up to 223 aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“76-seat jets”).
Exception one: If the Company establishes a fleet of new large widebody aircraft, the number of permitted 76-seat aircraft may increase four 76-seat aircraft for each one new large widebody aircraft (4:1.0) ratio (rounded to the next highest integer) up to a total of 287 76-seat aircraft. In the event more than 223 76-seat aircraft are in category A or C operations, then on January 1, 2016, and each succeeding January 1 thereafter, the Company will implement its plan to reduce the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations below Y (the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations as of [DOS]) rounded to the closest integer, as follows:
1) 0.9 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 223),
2) 0.9 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 233),
3) 1.0 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 243),
4) 1.1 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 253),
5) 1.1 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 263).
6) 2.4 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 273), and
7) 5.3 50-seat aircraft for each of the next additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 283).
Note one: Upon the delivery of a 284th76-seat aircraft, the number of permitted 50-seat aircraft will be 0 regardless of the number otherwise provided in Exception one.
Note two: If on January 1, 2017, or any succeeding January 1 thereafter, the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations exceeds the maximum permitted number, the Company will require carriers that engage in category A or C operations to suspend or cease operations on a sufficient number of 50-seat aircraft or 76-seat aircraft to comply with these requirements within 60 days and to remain in compliance thereafter. The Company will be excused from compliance with the provisions of this Note in the event a circumstance over which the Company does not have control is the cause of such non-compliance.
So there you get 16 new B773s and we reduce 50 seaters down to 0 but we raise 76 seaters by 64 aircraft which is less than the increase in TA 2012. 1.B.46. “Permitted aircraft type” means:
1.B.46.e. one of up to 102 aircraft configured with 51-70 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“70-seat aircraft”), and
1.B.46.f. one of up to 223 aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“76-seat jets”).
Exception one: If the Company establishes a fleet of new large widebody aircraft, the number of permitted 76-seat aircraft may increase four 76-seat aircraft for each one new large widebody aircraft (4:1.0) ratio (rounded to the next highest integer) up to a total of 287 76-seat aircraft. In the event more than 223 76-seat aircraft are in category A or C operations, then on January 1, 2016, and each succeeding January 1 thereafter, the Company will implement its plan to reduce the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations below Y (the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations as of [DOS]) rounded to the closest integer, as follows:
1) 0.9 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 223),
2) 0.9 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 233),
3) 1.0 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 243),
4) 1.1 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 253),
5) 1.1 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 263).
6) 2.4 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 273), and
7) 5.3 50-seat aircraft for each of the next additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 283).
Note one: Upon the delivery of a 284th76-seat aircraft, the number of permitted 50-seat aircraft will be 0 regardless of the number otherwise provided in Exception one.
Note two: If on January 1, 2017, or any succeeding January 1 thereafter, the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations exceeds the maximum permitted number, the Company will require carriers that engage in category A or C operations to suspend or cease operations on a sufficient number of 50-seat aircraft or 76-seat aircraft to comply with these requirements within 60 days and to remain in compliance thereafter. The Company will be excused from compliance with the provisions of this Note in the event a circumstance over which the Company does not have control is the cause of such non-compliance.
The total DCI fleet would be 389 jets, all 51+ seats, but down from DCI 450.
Sound good?
06-23-2012 | 08:00 PM
#45
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,007
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From: Space Shuttle PIC
Bill, future 717A avatar guy , would you sign off on this in 2015?
The total DCI fleet would be 389 jets, all 51+ seats, but down from DCI 450.
Sound good?
, would you sign off on this in 2015? 1.B.43.b. “New large widebody aircraft” means a B-777-300 or an A350 added to the Company’s fleet as of [DOS].
1.B.46. “Permitted aircraft type” means:
1.B.46.e. one of up to 102 aircraft configured with 51-70 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“70-seat aircraft”), and
1.B.46.f. one of up to 223 aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“76-seat jets”).
Exception one: If the Company establishes a fleet of new large widebody aircraft, the number of permitted 76-seat aircraft may increase four 76-seat aircraft for each one new large widebody aircraft (4:1.0) ratio (rounded to the next highest integer) up to a total of 287 76-seat aircraft. In the event more than 223 76-seat aircraft are in category A or C operations, then on January 1, 2016, and each succeeding January 1 thereafter, the Company will implement its plan to reduce the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations below Y (the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations as of [DOS]) rounded to the closest integer, as follows:
1) 0.9 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 223),
2) 0.9 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 233),
3) 1.0 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 243),
4) 1.1 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 253),
5) 1.1 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 263).
6) 2.4 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 273), and
7) 5.3 50-seat aircraft for each of the next additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 283).
Note one: Upon the delivery of a 284th76-seat aircraft, the number of permitted 50-seat aircraft will be 0 regardless of the number otherwise provided in Exception one.
Note two: If on January 1, 2017, or any succeeding January 1 thereafter, the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations exceeds the maximum permitted number, the Company will require carriers that engage in category A or C operations to suspend or cease operations on a sufficient number of 50-seat aircraft or 76-seat aircraft to comply with these requirements within 60 days and to remain in compliance thereafter. The Company will be excused from compliance with the provisions of this Note in the event a circumstance over which the Company does not have control is the cause of such non-compliance.
So there you get 16 new B773s and we reduce 50 seaters down to 0 but we raise 76 seaters by 64 aircraft which is less than the increase in TA 2012. 1.B.46. “Permitted aircraft type” means:
1.B.46.e. one of up to 102 aircraft configured with 51-70 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“70-seat aircraft”), and
1.B.46.f. one of up to 223 aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“76-seat jets”).
Exception one: If the Company establishes a fleet of new large widebody aircraft, the number of permitted 76-seat aircraft may increase four 76-seat aircraft for each one new large widebody aircraft (4:1.0) ratio (rounded to the next highest integer) up to a total of 287 76-seat aircraft. In the event more than 223 76-seat aircraft are in category A or C operations, then on January 1, 2016, and each succeeding January 1 thereafter, the Company will implement its plan to reduce the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations below Y (the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations as of [DOS]) rounded to the closest integer, as follows:
1) 0.9 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 223),
2) 0.9 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 233),
3) 1.0 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 243),
4) 1.1 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 253),
5) 1.1 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 263).
6) 2.4 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 273), and
7) 5.3 50-seat aircraft for each of the next additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 283).
Note one: Upon the delivery of a 284th76-seat aircraft, the number of permitted 50-seat aircraft will be 0 regardless of the number otherwise provided in Exception one.
Note two: If on January 1, 2017, or any succeeding January 1 thereafter, the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations exceeds the maximum permitted number, the Company will require carriers that engage in category A or C operations to suspend or cease operations on a sufficient number of 50-seat aircraft or 76-seat aircraft to comply with these requirements within 60 days and to remain in compliance thereafter. The Company will be excused from compliance with the provisions of this Note in the event a circumstance over which the Company does not have control is the cause of such non-compliance.
The total DCI fleet would be 389 jets, all 51+ seats, but down from DCI 450.
Sound good?
Heck yeah! Plus, there had better be 3 Space Shuttles and 4 Sonic Cruisers..... IOW, I would have to see how it would affect the group. The 16 773s would probably just replace the Whales, whereas this TA adds 88 717s and parks hundreds of RJs sooner to facilitate the 717s (leaving RJs allow 717s to take up most of the slack). It would have to be a good deal, like this TA is, for our whole group.
06-23-2012 | 08:24 PM
#46
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
Heck yeah! Plus, there had better be 3 Space Shuttles and 4 Sonic Cruisers..... IOW, I would have to see how it would affect the group. The 16 773s would probably just replace the Whales, whereas this TA adds 88 717s and parks hundreds of RJs sooner to facilitate the 717s (leaving RJs allow 717s to take up most of the slack). It would have to be a good deal, like this TA is, for our whole group.
06-23-2012 | 08:51 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,629
Likes: 15
From: blueJet
Bill, future 717A avatar guy , would you sign off on this in 2015?
The total DCI fleet would be 389 jets, all 51+ seats, but down from DCI 450.
Sound good?
, would you sign off on this in 2015?1.B.43.b. “New large widebody aircraft” means a B-777-300 or an A350 added to the Company’s fleet as of [DOS].
1.B.46. “Permitted aircraft type” means:
1.B.46.e. one of up to 102 aircraft configured with 51-70 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“70-seat aircraft”), and
1.B.46.f. one of up to 223 aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“76-seat jets”).
Exception one: If the Company establishes a fleet of new large widebody aircraft, the number of permitted 76-seat aircraft may increase four 76-seat aircraft for each one new large widebody aircraft (4:1.0) ratio (rounded to the next highest integer) up to a total of 287 76-seat aircraft. In the event more than 223 76-seat aircraft are in category A or C operations, then on January 1, 2016, and each succeeding January 1 thereafter, the Company will implement its plan to reduce the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations below Y (the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations as of [DOS]) rounded to the closest integer, as follows:
1) 0.9 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 223),
2) 0.9 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 233),
3) 1.0 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 243),
4) 1.1 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 253),
5) 1.1 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 263).
6) 2.4 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 273), and
7) 5.3 50-seat aircraft for each of the next additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 283).
Note one: Upon the delivery of a 284th76-seat aircraft, the number of permitted 50-seat aircraft will be 0 regardless of the number otherwise provided in Exception one.
Note two: If on January 1, 2017, or any succeeding January 1 thereafter, the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations exceeds the maximum permitted number, the Company will require carriers that engage in category A or C operations to suspend or cease operations on a sufficient number of 50-seat aircraft or 76-seat aircraft to comply with these requirements within 60 days and to remain in compliance thereafter. The Company will be excused from compliance with the provisions of this Note in the event a circumstance over which the Company does not have control is the cause of such non-compliance.
So there you get 16 new B773s and we reduce 50 seaters down to 0 but we raise 76 seaters by 64 aircraft which is less than the increase in TA 2012. 1.B.46. “Permitted aircraft type” means:
1.B.46.e. one of up to 102 aircraft configured with 51-70 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“70-seat aircraft”), and
1.B.46.f. one of up to 223 aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“76-seat jets”).
Exception one: If the Company establishes a fleet of new large widebody aircraft, the number of permitted 76-seat aircraft may increase four 76-seat aircraft for each one new large widebody aircraft (4:1.0) ratio (rounded to the next highest integer) up to a total of 287 76-seat aircraft. In the event more than 223 76-seat aircraft are in category A or C operations, then on January 1, 2016, and each succeeding January 1 thereafter, the Company will implement its plan to reduce the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations below Y (the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations as of [DOS]) rounded to the closest integer, as follows:
1) 0.9 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 223),
2) 0.9 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 233),
3) 1.0 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 243),
4) 1.1 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 253),
5) 1.1 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 263).
6) 2.4 50-seat aircraft for each of the first additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 273), and
7) 5.3 50-seat aircraft for each of the next additional ten 76-seat aircraft (above 283).
Note one: Upon the delivery of a 284th76-seat aircraft, the number of permitted 50-seat aircraft will be 0 regardless of the number otherwise provided in Exception one.
Note two: If on January 1, 2017, or any succeeding January 1 thereafter, the number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations exceeds the maximum permitted number, the Company will require carriers that engage in category A or C operations to suspend or cease operations on a sufficient number of 50-seat aircraft or 76-seat aircraft to comply with these requirements within 60 days and to remain in compliance thereafter. The Company will be excused from compliance with the provisions of this Note in the event a circumstance over which the Company does not have control is the cause of such non-compliance.
The total DCI fleet would be 389 jets, all 51+ seats, but down from DCI 450.
Sound good?
06-23-2012 | 08:55 PM
#49
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
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