Could plan B be new code share with Skywest??
06-20-2012 | 10:21 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,724
Likes: 0
From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
06-20-2012 | 04:33 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: 73 lifer
georgetg,
I was at the roadshow in SLC and asked a scope expert about this type of thing. Let me try and reproduce what I was told:
In your example, the passenger on the Alaska flight would not generate any revenue for Delta (that's what is called a prorate agreement...there's no incentive for Delta to route people that way unless it's much more convenient for the passenger).
With regard to the AirFrance flight, Delta gets the same share of revenue as if they had flown it. That's why a JV of this type is called "metal neutral".
So that type of JV could really jeopardize our jobs. Which is why it's so critical that we have a production balance. That is what we have in the Atlantic JV. We have to generate our fair share of the capacity. It is that same share that Delta gets of the revenue in the Atlantic JV.
The new TA contains a requirement for the company to come to a similar production balancing arrangement in any future JV. Presently our contract only says they will meet with us. The new JV puts up a backstop if an agreement is never arrived at.
When I imagine a JV with Korean Air and Virgin Australia I am mortified at how exposed we are without the language in this new TA.
For me, I'd vote yes on this TA just for the scope. The pay raises could be more, but the job protections are the main selling point for me. C2K taught me what happens when you have great pay rates and not enough job protections.
BTW, I tried to look up those flights on delta.com but the site wouldn't give me the flight combinations you got...did you enter specific parameters?
I was at the roadshow in SLC and asked a scope expert about this type of thing. Let me try and reproduce what I was told:
In your example, the passenger on the Alaska flight would not generate any revenue for Delta (that's what is called a prorate agreement...there's no incentive for Delta to route people that way unless it's much more convenient for the passenger).
With regard to the AirFrance flight, Delta gets the same share of revenue as if they had flown it. That's why a JV of this type is called "metal neutral".
So that type of JV could really jeopardize our jobs. Which is why it's so critical that we have a production balance. That is what we have in the Atlantic JV. We have to generate our fair share of the capacity. It is that same share that Delta gets of the revenue in the Atlantic JV.
The new TA contains a requirement for the company to come to a similar production balancing arrangement in any future JV. Presently our contract only says they will meet with us. The new JV puts up a backstop if an agreement is never arrived at.
When I imagine a JV with Korean Air and Virgin Australia I am mortified at how exposed we are without the language in this new TA.
For me, I'd vote yes on this TA just for the scope. The pay raises could be more, but the job protections are the main selling point for me. C2K taught me what happens when you have great pay rates and not enough job protections.
BTW, I tried to look up those flights on delta.com but the site wouldn't give me the flight combinations you got...did you enter specific parameters?
06-20-2012 | 05:51 PM
#17
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
Likes: 0
From: A-320A
SKW could be getting ready to buy Virgun America or Spirit as well.
06-20-2012 | 05:59 PM
#18
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
georgetg,
I was at the roadshow in SLC and asked a scope expert about this type of thing. Let me try and reproduce what I was told:
In your example, the passenger on the Alaska flight would not generate any revenue for Delta (that's what is called a prorate agreement...there's no incentive for Delta to route people that way unless it's much more convenient for the passenger).
With regard to the AirFrance flight, Delta gets the same share of revenue as if they had flown it. That's why a JV of this type is called "metal neutral".
So that type of JV could really jeopardize our jobs. Which is why it's so critical that we have a production balance. That is what we have in the Atlantic JV. We have to generate our fair share of the capacity. It is that same share that Delta gets of the revenue in the Atlantic JV.
The new TA contains a requirement for the company to come to a similar production balancing arrangement in any future JV. Presently our contract only says they will meet with us. The new JV puts up a backstop if an agreement is never arrived at.
When I imagine a JV with Korean Air and Virgin Australia I am mortified at how exposed we are without the language in this new TA.
For me, I'd vote yes on this TA just for the scope. The pay raises could be more, but the job protections are the main selling point for me. C2K taught me what happens when you have great pay rates and not enough job protections.
BTW, I tried to look up those flights on delta.com but the site wouldn't give me the flight combinations you got...did you enter specific parameters?
I was at the roadshow in SLC and asked a scope expert about this type of thing. Let me try and reproduce what I was told:
In your example, the passenger on the Alaska flight would not generate any revenue for Delta (that's what is called a prorate agreement...there's no incentive for Delta to route people that way unless it's much more convenient for the passenger).
With regard to the AirFrance flight, Delta gets the same share of revenue as if they had flown it. That's why a JV of this type is called "metal neutral".
So that type of JV could really jeopardize our jobs. Which is why it's so critical that we have a production balance. That is what we have in the Atlantic JV. We have to generate our fair share of the capacity. It is that same share that Delta gets of the revenue in the Atlantic JV.
The new TA contains a requirement for the company to come to a similar production balancing arrangement in any future JV. Presently our contract only says they will meet with us. The new JV puts up a backstop if an agreement is never arrived at.
When I imagine a JV with Korean Air and Virgin Australia I am mortified at how exposed we are without the language in this new TA.
For me, I'd vote yes on this TA just for the scope. The pay raises could be more, but the job protections are the main selling point for me. C2K taught me what happens when you have great pay rates and not enough job protections.
BTW, I tried to look up those flights on delta.com but the site wouldn't give me the flight combinations you got...did you enter specific parameters?
So I guess what you are saying is George photoshopped those screen prints?
....Doubt it.
06-20-2012 | 06:35 PM
#19
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
Then on the left side it says connection airport, check LAX or ORD. It'll pop up.
One of the examples from SEA-LAX uses a Q400 stopping in Santa Rosa then continuing to LAX and then the AF 777 to CDG.
06-20-2012 | 06:47 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,724
Likes: 0
From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
georgetg,
I was at the roadshow in SLC and asked a scope expert about this type of thing. Let me try and reproduce what I was told:
In your example, the passenger on the Alaska flight would not generate any revenue for Delta (that's what is called a prorate agreement...there's no incentive for Delta to route people that way unless it's much more convenient for the passenger).
With regard to the AirFrance flight, Delta gets the same share of revenue as if they had flown it. That's why a JV of this type is called "metal neutral".
So that type of JV could really jeopardize our jobs. Which is why it's so critical that we have a production balance. That is what we have in the Atlantic JV. We have to generate our fair share of the capacity. It is that same share that Delta gets of the revenue in the Atlantic JV.
The new TA contains a requirement for the company to come to a similar production balancing arrangement in any future JV. Presently our contract only says they will meet with us. The new JV puts up a backstop if an agreement is never arrived at.
When I imagine a JV with Korean Air and Virgin Australia I am mortified at how exposed we are without the language in this new TA.
For me, I'd vote yes on this TA just for the scope. The pay raises could be more, but the job protections are the main selling point for me. C2K taught me what happens when you have great pay rates and not enough job protections.
BTW, I tried to look up those flights on delta.com but the site wouldn't give me the flight combinations you got...did you enter specific parameters?
I was at the roadshow in SLC and asked a scope expert about this type of thing. Let me try and reproduce what I was told:
In your example, the passenger on the Alaska flight would not generate any revenue for Delta (that's what is called a prorate agreement...there's no incentive for Delta to route people that way unless it's much more convenient for the passenger).
With regard to the AirFrance flight, Delta gets the same share of revenue as if they had flown it. That's why a JV of this type is called "metal neutral".
So that type of JV could really jeopardize our jobs. Which is why it's so critical that we have a production balance. That is what we have in the Atlantic JV. We have to generate our fair share of the capacity. It is that same share that Delta gets of the revenue in the Atlantic JV.
The new TA contains a requirement for the company to come to a similar production balancing arrangement in any future JV. Presently our contract only says they will meet with us. The new JV puts up a backstop if an agreement is never arrived at.
When I imagine a JV with Korean Air and Virgin Australia I am mortified at how exposed we are without the language in this new TA.
For me, I'd vote yes on this TA just for the scope. The pay raises could be more, but the job protections are the main selling point for me. C2K taught me what happens when you have great pay rates and not enough job protections.
BTW, I tried to look up those flights on delta.com but the site wouldn't give me the flight combinations you got...did you enter specific parameters?
The experts on this, Sam and Desi weren't there, but I did get a chance to bring up this very subject when I spoke with Tim O'Malley after the roadshow.
From your explanation I'm not sure you are aware of where we stand in the Transatlantic JV, especially considering your choice of words about our share of flying and how and why the new additional JV language (1.E.8) is quite different from the Transatlantic JV language (1.P).
As for the flights, I searched today on delta.com, the date of flight is in the picture...
Cheers
George
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
