forgot to bid

So, this is all of a sudden a DPA issue and not a ALPA issue?

It's an ALPA issue even if you are a DPA hater it's an issue. Or is that just a way to let TO's letter dangle in the wind? Either way, it gives half the story.

What a dysfunctional mess.

alfaromeo

This is the most ridiculous post. The MEC had a vote. They could have rejected the TA. How are they neutered?

Option 1 - The Negotiators come back to the MEC and report on the final pay offer. The MEC either accepts or doesn't.

Option 2 - The Negotiators come back to the MEC and report a TA on the final pay offer. The MEC either accepts or doesn't.

Could you please spell out for me the difference between 1 and 2?

The Policy Manual is an official document that the MEC approved on how to conduct their own business. Saying, well you technically followed the Policy Manual yet a couple of reps are upset so that doesn't count is ridiculous. If the MEC didn't want their Policy Manual followed, then why didn't they rewrite it? Can one or two reps get to dictate their own set of rules and then claim foul when they aren't followed? How would you feel if some FAA inspector said, "Well you followed all the policies and procedures, but I don't like those policies so you fail this checkride." That is why we have policies, so people know how they need to conduct themselves. You can't just make up new rules on the fly and then claim there is a conspiracy when they aren't followed.

In essence, what you are saying is that the MEC was able to reject a deal that wasn't a TA, but they were unable to reject a deal that was a TA. Why is the MEC able to make a decision in one case and not the other? What really happened was that the MEC debated the issues and they decided by a large majority that this was the best course of action. That is pretty simple. They didn't abdicate their authority, they just used it in a way that you disagree with.

This is how TA's have been handled at Delta for 30 years. Now all of a sudden it's a crisis? Oh, and it's a crisis only for the people that lost the vote. Hmmmm.

Can't you guys just admit that you wish the vote had been no, you hope the TA fails memrat and you hope this TA never becomes our contract? I could at least respect the honesty. Why do we now have to manufacture a crisis to try to mislead people into thinking this deal is tainted?

acl65pilot

Alfa;

I have one vote, you have one vote. I will live either way. I looked at the product absent the process and came to a decision on my vote. If I am in the minority, I am fine with that. I like many are not making this personal, and will move on and work to bring this group forward though the next steps in the process; whether or not that is going back to the table, or implementation of the ratified ta. I want our company and our pilots to be successful. This is merely one decision in the process. We all will move to the next issue.

Process wise, tell me why Tom Tucker and the comments out of Art Aaron's mouth, and the C1 reps are totally wrong. Where they not in the same room? Was the process followed to a T, and these guys are just delusional? Are there more "yes" voting reps that agree with them, but feel that the process can only be fixed after the TA is ratified? What is it? There seem to be a lot of people that say the process was not followed. Some Reps thought the TA was good enough to send to the pilots and some though it did not meet the direction of the Reps or the Pilots they represented, all absent judging the process. What that does not mean is that the yes voters feel there is no issue with the process.

kiteflyer

Mods, please remove this post.

bluejuice71

Maybe, maybe not. But T.O.'s letter has nothing to do with that because he or anyone in ALPA has no idea of how the voting is going. Amazes me how all the naysayers think everything is a conspiracy & everything that comes from the union or company is a lie. You & Jack Bauer need to go watch some more 24.

Jack Bauer

I see several holes in the prosess and in Tim's letter. Tim is doing exactly what he accuses Tom of. I would like to see Tim go as soon as possible. I don't trust the guy any further than I could throw him.

dragon

Don't forget there were some reps that thought the Pilots needed to make the decision no matter what.

Let's face it, if the MEC had returned the TA to the NC we would have all screamed to see it and make our own decisions. We got that opportunity. Now if we could just get the NC and the MEC Admin to give us the facts without "spin" and with the warts, I would be happier. I think because they sent it to MEMRAT they are obliged to make sure it passes. Isn't that usually part of any deal with the company?

Check Essential

C'mon. You're being disingenuous now. There is a huge difference and you know it. Under your option 1 it is done in private. Quietly. It is simply a continuation of the negotiating process.

Under option 2, which is what happened, there is a big public announcement. ALPA issues press releases. Delta issues press releases. We have a TA before the reps have had a final say on the most important aspects --> the final payrates and scope language. The media is all over it. It is far more of a "done deal". Rejecting it at that point would have far bigger consequences. It would amount to a public rebuke of our negotiators. It would be a public slap in Anderson's face. We would look inept, etc. etc. The MEC is under much greater pressure to approve a "TA" than they would be to quietly send our guys back into the room to make some adjustments prior to it becoming a "TA".

That's exactly what I'm saying. And that's exactly what you and O'Malley and Olmstead did. You put the MEC in a chair with the hot lights on them and you made them sweat. And you made sure the whole world was watching.
That's hardball union politics. I might have done the same thing in your shoes.
But don't deny it. You only look foolish if you do.

Jack Bauer

This pretty much sums it up. Omally played by Gene Hackman. Captain Tucker played by Denzel Washington.

Omally bent on ramroding his authority and his "process", strong arming those under him to gain "compliance" and "unity". Captain Tucker trying to bring in some common sense and accountability to the so called process and end result.

80ktsClamp

Thanks, ACL!

I posted Tom's response in the C20 thread as well.



Now that this is out there: TO looks pretty dang pathetic with this.