Sorry to go back to page two or three, but getting a union isn't a guaranteed way to better health care. One of my Spirit contacts tells me that their ALPA negotiators allowed a huge increase in health bennies. That's even after they walked off the job.

 

While your first statement is correct the second needs a little clarification.

ALPA did not allow a huge increase in health bennies. Spirits MEC agreed to whatever their health benefits are. Spirit pilots negotiating with ALPA's assistance. Every scenario is a give and take. Increases are to be expected but unlike the Jetblue pilots scenarios Spirit is not transferring 80% of the cost to the pilots.
Even if Spirit did receive an increase their insurance is still far superior to Jetblues and it was NEGOTIATED by Spirit pilots.

 

Spirit Airlines makes the best case possible for being unionized. The abuse to the pilot profession is the worst I have ever seen in my career. The biggest complaint I see here is the fact that they called off the strike without pilot group ratification and told the pilots that our negotiators would quit if they didnt vote yes for the contract. And....our reps. assured everyone that this place would never go public so no need for profit sharing. Go figure.

 

This is like bragging about taking your sister to the prom. Are you kidding me? Highest paid E190 drivers. Compared to who? UsAir?

 

Delta management LOST an arbitrated case over harassing Delta pilots about using sick time. The CONTRACT and the UNION are what allowed this case to even exist. Delta management recently had to give beneficial work rule changes(for the pilot group) due to violating our scope clause. Once again, it was the contract and union that forced this. Delta management recently again attempted to 'monitor sick leave usage' until the union threatened another arbitration case. They immediately backed off. Our contract lays out profit sharing. They didn't find away around that. It lays out the amount of sick time we are given. They didn't find a loophole around that. It lays out the amount we get paid. They didn't find a way around that. It lays out the work rules. They sometimes try to get around those, but when the UNION investigates the case and finds out they violated the contract they end up paying money for it. So you are wrong. There are indeed pilot groups that have protection, and they are unionized groups.


Your waving a gun with no bullets. It's not going to win the battle. There are only two airlines in the US that operate E190's. JB has nothing worth bragging about there. Sorry.

 

+1.

Unions (especially a strong one) are necessary "evils" in our industry whether you are pro union or not. It's just the way it has to be. You may not agree with your union shop or care to participate in it, but it sure comes in handy when the company decides to try and bend the rules or change the game. Oh, I forgot, unjustified termination? That benefit alone is worth the dues IMHO.

 

Good point. He said something along the lines of "how would you even know someone else's contract? Not like you get to see other pilots contracts" which is all true.

I thought about it and wondered at that point if there were any special details in certain guys contracts that others don't even know about? Makes you wonder doesn't it? I would hope our contracts are cut and pasted equally on pay and benefits but do you REALLY know for sure?

 

The thing guys like EK completely miss is that the E190 is not some new, unheard-of paradigm, just because Embraer built it.

It's a 100-seat jet, like an F100, DC9-10 or -30, B717, or 737-200, except it carries more fuel and flies farther than any of those types. So when JetBlue's attrition finally exceeded management's tolerance to pay for it, the rates on that jet were magically brought up to that peer set. And USAir's crappy payrates are largely due to our original crappy rates, exacerbated by the East/West bloodbath.

 

It's comical to read posts by JetBlue pilots who in an effort to feel better about themselves and their airline will point to a 190. An airplane the airline has made clear they will not take more deliveries of and are actively selling off.

That mentality is the epitome of whats wrong with JetBlue. It's doesn't matter if we are the highest paid 190 pilots when we won't even have jobs if we're bought by american.

Again, JetBlue management is smarter than the 1193.

190 pay means nothing if you don't have a job.

 

Yawn.........