Go-Around for Pax in the Lav?
05-13-2013 | 10:56 AM
#31
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,543
Likes: 0
From: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Original poster- great question! Maybe there needs to be more defined company procedures for both pilots and FAs to handle these situations. This situation seems both common enough AND serious enough to warrant planning and that general procedures are established. Also, my mom was non revving last week when when a pax ran to the lav on final. So I was wondering the same thing.
05-13-2013 | 11:49 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,244
Likes: 2
From: Baja Vermont
Timbo
Stupidest thing I ever saw a passenger do here was eat the sushi from the Moscow caterer. Cats would have fled in despair.
Back seat in the B727, layovers at the old Royce Hotel next to PBI, I got miserably sick from something every trip for 2 months. I was brushing my teeth with Perrier and still getting sick. Next morning, just outside the Wilson bridge, landing 36 at DCA, I tell the Captain, "panel's good for landing, I won't make it" and duck into the 1st class lav. Didn't see the landing but I did get the APU started clearing the runway.
I think this a judgement call you get the big bucks for making. Both a landing and a go around could be reasonable, depending. Coming out of a long hold, getting close to divert fuel, weather at the mins, land. CAVU at ICT, only traffic around, maybe land, maybe go around the pattern. The danger I see, is the pax standing in aisle having not understood the touchdown and getting sent into another pax or a bulkhead when you hit the brakes to make a turn-off, you not knowing where they are. The lawyers here might be the biggest danger.
The FA, while wrong saying "go around", might have been reasonable informing the Catain of the situation, let him decide and letting him know.
GF
Stupidest thing I ever saw a passenger do here was eat the sushi from the Moscow caterer. Cats would have fled in despair.
Back seat in the B727, layovers at the old Royce Hotel next to PBI, I got miserably sick from something every trip for 2 months. I was brushing my teeth with Perrier and still getting sick. Next morning, just outside the Wilson bridge, landing 36 at DCA, I tell the Captain, "panel's good for landing, I won't make it" and duck into the 1st class lav. Didn't see the landing but I did get the APU started clearing the runway.
I think this a judgement call you get the big bucks for making. Both a landing and a go around could be reasonable, depending. Coming out of a long hold, getting close to divert fuel, weather at the mins, land. CAVU at ICT, only traffic around, maybe land, maybe go around the pattern. The danger I see, is the pax standing in aisle having not understood the touchdown and getting sent into another pax or a bulkhead when you hit the brakes to make a turn-off, you not knowing where they are. The lawyers here might be the biggest danger.
The FA, while wrong saying "go around", might have been reasonable informing the Catain of the situation, let him decide and letting him know.
GF
05-13-2013 | 11:54 AM
#33
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 14
From: Tool-Box, old man
So here's the scenario as it happened to me (I have overheard such scenarios loitering around the briefing room in the past):
Gear down on final, short final, call comes from the back. Ding! Lead FA: "Hey, we have a passenger who jumped up and ran into the lav. I think you should go around. I told her to remain seated and she ignored me. Should I get her out?"
Me: "Uhhh, no say strapped in. But this isn't a good time right now, I gotta go. (Click)
Now, before the wheels spin up in your head and get wrapped around the brain stem, yes we continued the approach and landed (and filled out an FSR).
I have heard other crews electing to execute a go-around after receiving a call like this and I want to know what your thoughts are. Here are my bullet points:
- Passengers have been briefed on landing checks and policy, seatbelt sign is on.
- Cabin crew is seated and strapped in. They are secured in their jumpseats to facilitate egress to the passengers in the event of an evac. Removing their harnesses and getting up to retrieve a passenger from the lav during landing could injure the FA in the event of an incident and prohibit them from performing their duties (remember inform not enforce).
- Executing a go-around on short final for any reason is an added and significant risk to ALL aboard the aircraft not to mention other aircraft in the vicinity. An aircraft which fails to clear the runway is a good reason. But a potty break? (Hey, but when yo gotta go-you gotta GO)!
- Go-around hazards: Irregular op, high workload, loss of separation, mid-air, FOD or bird, engine or mechanical failure, weather or low visibility issues, fuel issues, communication, errors/stress, ATC complications, arrival delays, and of course, expense.
All for one person who couldn't hold it? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?
And you say?
Gear down on final, short final, call comes from the back. Ding! Lead FA: "Hey, we have a passenger who jumped up and ran into the lav. I think you should go around. I told her to remain seated and she ignored me. Should I get her out?"
Me: "Uhhh, no say strapped in. But this isn't a good time right now, I gotta go. (Click)
Now, before the wheels spin up in your head and get wrapped around the brain stem, yes we continued the approach and landed (and filled out an FSR).
I have heard other crews electing to execute a go-around after receiving a call like this and I want to know what your thoughts are. Here are my bullet points:
- Passengers have been briefed on landing checks and policy, seatbelt sign is on.
- Cabin crew is seated and strapped in. They are secured in their jumpseats to facilitate egress to the passengers in the event of an evac. Removing their harnesses and getting up to retrieve a passenger from the lav during landing could injure the FA in the event of an incident and prohibit them from performing their duties (remember inform not enforce).
- Executing a go-around on short final for any reason is an added and significant risk to ALL aboard the aircraft not to mention other aircraft in the vicinity. An aircraft which fails to clear the runway is a good reason. But a potty break? (Hey, but when yo gotta go-you gotta GO)!
- Go-around hazards: Irregular op, high workload, loss of separation, mid-air, FOD or bird, engine or mechanical failure, weather or low visibility issues, fuel issues, communication, errors/stress, ATC complications, arrival delays, and of course, expense.
All for one person who couldn't hold it? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?
And you say?
05-13-2013 | 11:56 AM
#34
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Timbo
Stupidest thing I ever saw a passenger do here was eat the sushi from the Moscow caterer. Cats would have fled in despair.
Back seat in the B727, layovers at the old Royce Hotel next to PBI, I got miserably sick from something every trip for 2 months. I was brushing my teeth with Perrier and still getting sick. Next morning, just outside the Wilson bridge, landing 36 at DCA, I tell the Captain, "panel's good for landing, I won't make it" and duck into the 1st class lav. Didn't see the landing but I did get the APU started clearing the runway.
GF
Stupidest thing I ever saw a passenger do here was eat the sushi from the Moscow caterer. Cats would have fled in despair.
Back seat in the B727, layovers at the old Royce Hotel next to PBI, I got miserably sick from something every trip for 2 months. I was brushing my teeth with Perrier and still getting sick. Next morning, just outside the Wilson bridge, landing 36 at DCA, I tell the Captain, "panel's good for landing, I won't make it" and duck into the 1st class lav. Didn't see the landing but I did get the APU started clearing the runway.
GF
See, that's why we need our own crapper, in the cockpit!
Even more now, with all the Secure the Cockpit stuff we have to deal with in the post 9-11 world!
05-13-2013 | 12:09 PM
#35
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,063
Likes: 10
From: Sleeping
05-13-2013 | 01:07 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,215
Likes: 50
From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
05-13-2013 | 01:33 PM
#37
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
05-13-2013 | 02:01 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 417
Likes: 0
From: French American
05-13-2013 | 02:02 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,070
Likes: 1
From: Urban chicken rancher.
They should just add seatbelts in the lavs and be done with it! We could even charge extra for that seat!
"Constipated? For a small additional fee, you can strap into Delta's new "Freedom Throne" and we'll be sure to scare the crap right out of you!".
Delta Airlines Ebonics Commercial - YouTube
"We got you covered like a Jimmy Hat!"
"Constipated? For a small additional fee, you can strap into Delta's new "Freedom Throne" and we'll be sure to scare the crap right out of you!".
Delta Airlines Ebonics Commercial - YouTube
"We got you covered like a Jimmy Hat!"
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