I'm not taking a position on whether mods need to force the discussion off the L&G, but I'd like to offer a place to hold it, if people want to try voluntarily.

This is an important topic, because whoever negotiates for us needs to be able to make a very convincing case they speak for all of us. If our agent can't do this, as we sit down with RA to collect on past cooperation for tangible gains, and especially as we negotiate for future gains in a new contract, this dispute is actually going to start costing us real money, and real improvements, real soon. This is not an academic discussion. Whatever efforts can be brought to bear to bring this to a conclusion, no matter who you prefer as an agent, should be expanded.

It's no secret that I have a bias, and it's OK for everyone to have a bias, assuming we can discuss this intelligently. I would suggest a couple of rules to keep it functional and productive:

1) Write as if you were next to the person you're addressing.
2) Write to convince the lurker about the merit(s) of your argument(s).
3) Make your argument about the issues if you can. Lurk if you can't.

We can disagree passionately, but if we don't agree to solve this one way or another, we're going to (literally) be all poorer for it.

In Unity,

Sink r8.

 

LOL, if they can't do it on the DALPA message boards, where their names are attached to their posts, what makes you think they will do it on APC where it's all anonymous posting & ranting.

 

Thanks for starting this, Sink! Some discussion is fine and appropriate on the L&G, but I think we can all agree that page after page after page of uninterrupted DPA/DALPA posts back and forth is at least a bit obnoxious.

 

I've always thought that people try harder to maintain their avatar's reputation, than their own. Maybe it's in some people's personality to look brave when you know who they are, while some try to look smart or funny when the mystery is alive.

The forum? I guess many people figured they're uncloaked, so they might as well fire something.

Let's move on. I'm optimistic we're smart enough.

 

Then shouldn't this thread be in Union Talk?

 

But you've allowed it in the past and even moved the DPA thread back to the majors section when it suited your politics.

 

You're welcome to start one there, if you'd like.

 

And now he's leaving it alone. So we're all set.

 

Off to bed, and looking forward to some real persuasive posts. There is, of course, about a 65% this thing will be FUBAR by about 6AM, but as I said, I'm going to be optimistic.

 

OK, I got a question on one issue. You guys have been going round-and-round on dues. It's not one of my key issues. Can anyone make a fact-based, but brief argument about what money we expect to spend in either case? I'm under the impression the dues would be about the same when everything goes well, start-up and negotiating dues+assessments higher under DPA, some of our dues subsidize RJ drivers at ALPA, but dues are more steady-state, plus access to MCF money. I don't know if Delta pilots have a "war chest" in their name under ALPA.

Is that an issue we could get some clarity on? First one who manages to explain this without popping a vein, or insulting someone else, "wins" (the hearts and minds of the elusive lurker).

Last post as I read on this topic was something about "twerking like a pole dancer", so I'm sure this will be fun.