3662forlife

Are FAPA or FAPAInvest the only party or parties that have petitioned the NMB or did Frontier, as a Company, also petition the NMB?

CM has stated over and over, including today, that FAPA could not file, but does Frontier have the ability/authority/right to petition the NMB to separate from RAH?

Cross Check

I don't think the company can file. FAPA or any individual can. I may be wrong though.

doz4dllrs

For nobody wanting to go to Frontier why was the majority of your "payday update" (and every payday update over the past 6 months) dedicated to the Frontier separation, loa 67, not being able to bid the airbus, etc? I'd be more concerned about a new contract instead. I would've loved to see Moffat's face when their lawyer said that if the IBT wins the LOA 67 lawsuit the money would go to the frontier pilots. Classic!

HappyCrew

Thats awesome!!!! I also took a huge dump on one their busses. Unfortunately it all flushed down the hole, I would have loved for it to have "hung up" for one of the FA's to find. I feel that all pilots need to experience a "taco bell blowout" will JS/DH/etc. on the F9 buss at some point in their career. I can't put it in words but the whole concept of having a "religious rectal experience" while flying F9 is truly remarkable. Happy hunting and have a good day.

HC aka "the phantom crapper"

Cross Check

Wow, this thread turns into crap. Thanks F9 haters.

terryhflyer

For disliking Frontier so much you sure spend a lot of your time thinking about it. Maybe you need a hobby or a girlfriend. Why is it so hard to just leave us alone. You do your Republic thing and we will worry about Frontier. Everyone is happy

Bulldog319

Tiller, I do believe you. I know that many of your co-workers and possibly even you are telling CM to stop wasting time and money on this. I know that many more would be vocal if it wasn't for the percieved fear of retaliation from the senior check airmen that have the most to gain from this. I can't even imagine how angry I would be if I worked for RAH and saw my long overdue contract not having every resource poured into it while money, bolstered from extra assessments, is spent chasing down a sailing ship.

CM's Mantra of 50%+1 is mistaken. If this was a representational dispute he would be correct. If all of the pilots at RAH wanted to replace IBT with ALPA then he would be correct. We are petitioning for a single carrier determination and there is no % threshold defined in the representation manual for that action, So yes, a petition from the Chautauqua pilots, Shuttle Pilots, Republic pilots and even if they felt so inclined the Columbus based pilots could be submitted, Just as our petition has already been submitted, accepted, with a file number and investigator already assigned.

there were a few comments on here when the original SLI was done that followed the same thoughts as this one from EMB170man.

65% at that time means that he is probably a junior captain or senior FO by now.
75% on the combined list would have put well over 500 Frontier pilots ahead of him if Frontier had not been sold.

There were also sentiments expressed that are well represented in this post from 170Homie I wonder how these two pilots and many more with similar sentiments would feel if by some miracle CM is succesful and wedges the door open for more than 500 pilots to flow back in front of 170man should Frontier fail at a time when no other majors are hiring (As stated by Homie, that's certainly not improbable, we're still a small fish surrounded by 2 very big sharks)

CM is fighting very hard to convince the membership to stay on board with him for something that, even if successful, has very minimal upside to most of your membership.

Long term upside, your top 300 lifers assuming we are even still here when the 7 years fence falls.

Short term upside, unlikely possibility that 20 or 30 tier 3 FO's come over if the eischen decision is favorable to IBT on January 31 (terms of arbitration include that eischen does not have the ability to change the contract, you won't be bringing your longevity without an amalgamated contract, year 1 F9 FO pay is only a pay increase for your FO's, unchangeable contract has absolutely no provision for transfer to a completely separate company)

Downside, a decrease in seniority by 650 numbers for well over half of your list if Frontier fails, especially if during hard economic times which would coincidentally be the most likely time of a failure.

groundspoiler

I can't believe anyone at RAH will follow the CM mantra! He preached that BS at YX and was considered a joke and he is still preaching the same tune. Did he get his job back like he managed at YX or is he still out? Pilots never learn! He was a fool at YX and still people follow him now. The folks at RAH should wake up! Call for a re election and get rid of him.

zoooropa

I was told that CM is saying the NMB did not accept the petition from the Frontier pilots. This is what the NMB distributed to Frontier, FAPA and the IBT;

"The National Mediation Board (Board or NMB) received an application filed on
behalf of Frontier Airline Pilots Association (Organization), for the services of the Board
under the provisions of Section 2, Ninth, of the Railway Labor Act. A copy of the
application and any cover letter or position statement is enclosed. The applicant alleges
a representation dispute involving the following employees of Frontier Airlines, Inc.
(Carrier):
“Pilots”
This application has been assigned NMB File No. CR-7107 in order to conduct a
pre-docketing investigation and will be referred to by that number. Investigator Cristina
A. Bonaca is assigned to investigate this case. All further contacts in this matter should
be made only with the General Counsel or the Investigator. These individuals are the
only Board employees authorized to make any official statements on behalf of the NMB
in this case.

Within five (5) working days of the date of this letter, the representatives of the
participants, with the exception of the applicant, must file the enclosed Notice of
Appearance for up to three representatives. The representative who will be the
primary contact for the Board must be included on the Notice of Appearance. This will
facilitate communications with Board personnel and ensure receipt of all pertinent
documents and other information.
The following information should be provided by 10 a.m., ET, January 2, 2013,
or as provided below:
1. Our records indicate that the applied-for employees are represented by
the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (R-7284). Any participant
that has other information regarding the employees’ representation
status must promptly notify the Board.
2. The Carrier must deliver to the Board’s Office of Legal Affairs an
alphabetized list of potential eligible voters as a Microsoft-Excel
file. The format of the list of potential eligible voters must be prepared
in five columns or fields exactly as the enclosed sample format
displays. There must not be any other information or data in the file
except as displayed in the five columns or fields on the sample format.
The column or field headers must be contained on one row only. The
Carrier must not include any hidden columns or fields in the Excel file.
Note that employee middle initials appear with the first name. Do not
make a separate column or field for the middle initial. If you have any
questions about the correct format for this list of potential eligible
voters, contact the NMB Election Administrator at 202-692-5040.
3. The Carrier must inform the Investigator of the date of the last day
of its last payroll period prior to December 17, 2013 and the
number of employees covered by this application. The list of potential
eligible voters must contain all individuals with an employeeemployer
relationship as of the last day of the last payroll period
prior to December 17, 2013.1 The list must be alphabetized on a
system-wide basis. The Carrier must provide a copy of the list to the
Organization.

4. The Carrier must provide one set of signature samples for the
eligible voters solely to the Investigator. The alphabetized
signature samples must be in the same order as the names on the list
of eligible voters. Until an applicable list and the signature samples are
received by the Investigator, the Investigator will continue to accept
additional authorization cards.
5. Participants should provide an initial position statement regarding
any issue in this case to the Investigator.
Upon receipt of this letter, the Carrier must post the enclosed “Notice to
Employees” at all stations.

NMB File No. CR-7107
This will notify you of an application filed pursuant to the Railway Labor Act involving the
following:
PILOTS
OF
FRONTIER AIRLINES, INC.
SOUGHT TO BE REPRESENTED BY
FRONTIER AIRLINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION
AND PRESENTLY REPRESENTED BY
INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS
This case is assigned to a Board Representative for investigation. NO DETERMINATION HAS
BEEN MADE AT THIS TIME. If an election is held, a Notice of Election will be posted and sent
to all employees giving details for voting.
The Railway Labor Act gives employees the right to select representatives without carrier
influence or interference. A portion of that statute provides:
No carrier, its officers, or agents shall deny or in any way question the right of its
employees to join, organize, or assist in organizing the labor organization of their
choice, and it shall be unlawful for any carrier to interfere in any way with the
organization of its employees . . . .
All employees are free to express their desire to be represented by a labor organization or to
be unrepresented. The Carrier is not permitted to influence, interfere or coerce employees in
any manner in an effort to induce them to participate or refrain from participating in an election
should there be one."

The NMB did accept the allegation of a representation dispute and they are conducting an investigation. Should they determine a dispute exists, there will be an election and the only pilots that will participate in the election will be the pilots employed by Frontier Airlines, Inc.

So much for the 51% of the RAH pilots that CM keeps stating.

3662forlife

From the call Thursday, CM has a three-day recurrent Ground School, four sim training events, starting 1-20-2014 and IF he passes the ride, he is off-line for union business for the duration of his term as President (through 12-31-2015).

The National Airline Division (AD) has:

–Established a new Negotiating Team, with no RAH pilots having a speaking role,
–Taken over Negotiations,
–Removed our President from the NC,
–Added our Local VP to the AD NC team (without EBoard input or approval),
–Allowed the 357 NC Chair and Vice-Chair to attend negotiations – but placed a gag order on them so they can’t discuss what happens with the 357 EBoard (we ARE paying National, right?),
–TA’ed a “new” Article 6(a) – without revealing what is being negotiated or agreed upon to the 357 EBoard or membership,
–And more.

The alleged advantage of having IBT represent us versus ALPA was that IBT is a “Bottom-up” organization, while ALPA is a “Top-down” organization. What IBT National Airline Division is doing isn’t remotely a “Bottom-up” approach.

Is this a power move by IBT AD and/or have they lost confidence in the Local – again?

Are we getting close to another Trusteeship?

Wilder is no longer a part of negotiations, why are we still paying an assessment for his services?

If the AD has taken over negotiations, shouldn’t National be paying for it, as no one from the Local even gets a vote (until all four (or 5) Articles are put out for a vote)?

If National AD is running the show, they should pay for the show!

What will CM do for the next year to justify his pay?

It IS nice to see CM finally posting on the MB, that’s got to be worth something…

Who is paying him? RAH, IBT National, Local 357 or no one?

Is he, or will he be, paid as a FO, Capt. or “something else?”

What happens if he fails the check ride again? Especially when our VP has crossed over from “Local” to “National?”