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Old 01-08-2014 | 05:08 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Snarge
And I told you that was leadership....

bottom line is, when management at a non union carriers decides to pilot push.... said pilots don't push back. Losers: pilots, FAs and passengers. Winners: stockholders.

Is the fog lifting?
I'm the last guy to defend JB management, and I'm still ****ed that 1193 of my coworkers were too dumb to vote yes in 2011. Having said that, your spiel is getting old. A good part of the reason we sucked so bad this weekend is that about 2400 of us are pushing back.
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Old 01-08-2014 | 05:14 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by aewanabe
I'm the last guy to defend JB management, and I'm still ****ed that 1193 of my coworkers were too dumb to vote yes in 2011. Having said that, your spiel is getting old. A good part of the reason we sucked so bad this weekend is that about 2400 of us are pushing back.

I agree. I was not here in 2011, but I am here now. Awaiting an announcement...
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Old 01-08-2014 | 05:39 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Snarge

Never liked free loaders....
Yeah, so you can help fund abominations like 117. Millions of dues money spent to change a complicated, archaic rest/duty system to a brand new, even more complicated, and less functional system. Sure would have hated to miss throwing cash at that! ALPA is proud of themselves though so money well spent. It's good to be a pro.
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Old 01-08-2014 | 05:48 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod
Yeah, so you can help fund abominations like 117. Millions of dues money spent to change a complicated, archaic rest/duty system to a brand new, even more complicated, and less functional system. Sure would have hated to miss throwing cash at that! ALPA is proud of themselves though so money well spent. It's good to be a pro.
Misinformed again.... and as usual...

The change was going to happen... the public wanted it... so if something is going to happen, do you want to be a part of the change or do you just want to be left out of the process and told later your new terms...

oh wait, that is how JB pay and benefits work....
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Old 01-08-2014 | 06:03 AM
  #95  
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From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
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Originally Posted by Snarge
And I told you that was leadership....

bottom line is, when management at a non union carriers decides to pilot push.... said pilots don't push back. Losers: pilots, FAs and passengers. Winners: stockholders.

Is the fog lifting?
Because YOU said its leadership it must be true, you really are a sky-god. Get over yourself old man.
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Old 01-08-2014 | 06:06 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Snarge
Misinformed again.... and as usual...

The change was going to happen... the public wanted it... so if something is going to happen, do you want to be a part of the change or do you just want to be left out of the process and told later your new terms...

oh wait, that is how JB pay and benefits work....
I don't see how it could have been worse without ALPA input. This feces sandwich was coming anyway, and the ALPA special sauce was not only expensive but didn't help. Worse is that they think they did a good job.
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Old 01-08-2014 | 06:09 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod
I don't see how it could have been worse without ALPA input. This feces sandwich was coming anyway, and the ALPA special sauce was not only expensive but didn't help. Worse is that they think they did a good job.
Explain....

also, How is 10h rest each night a bad thing?

also, so you are saying its better to be excluded and told after the fact the terms that effect you....
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Old 01-08-2014 | 06:48 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Snarge
Explain....

also, How is 10h rest each night a bad thing?

also, so you are saying its better to be excluded and told after the fact the terms that effect you....
I WAS getting 10hr/night. A lot of our redeye flying was compartmentalized. The guys that liked that schedule acclimated. They flew nights, others flew days. 117, in a moronic twist, forces us to swap between front and back side of the clock. Get that? In the new improved lemon scented 117, THEY think it is safer for me to swap cycles IN THE MIDDLE of a block of on days. Science based rules my snarge.

As for the second part, in this case yes. We didn't get our money's Woerth.
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Old 01-08-2014 | 07:06 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod
Yeah, so you can help fund abominations like 117. Millions of dues money spent to change a complicated, archaic rest/duty system to a brand new, even more complicated, and less functional system. Sure would have hated to miss throwing cash at that! ALPA is proud of themselves though so money well spent. It's good to be a pro.

Your giving ALPA a lot of credit if you say they caused 117. In fact it was coming and mandated by congress. What ALPA was able to do was limit some of the more horrific aspects that were attempted to be written into the rule. Things such as 11 flight hours per day and a requirement for commuters to get 8 hours rest in domicle prior to beginning any trip. There were many other items like this. In fact if you take the time to read the whole rule it explains in many sections what the AFA and individual airline managements actually wanted verses what they got. You might find it interesting reading. Might even give you some perspective on why we need a voice in DC.
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Old 01-08-2014 | 07:10 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
Your giving ALPA a lot of credit if you say they caused 117. In fact it was coming and mandated by congress. What ALPA was able to do was limit some of the more horrific aspects that were attempted to be written into the rule. Things such as 11 flight hours per day and a requirement for commuters to get 8 hours rest in domicle prior to beginning any trip. There were many other items like this. In fact if you take the time to read the whole rule it explains in many sections what the AFA and individual airline managements actually wanted verses what they got. You might find it interesting reading. Might even give you some perspective on why we need a voice in DC.

Don't interject facts into the conversation! That's not allowed!
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