Grumble

All US airlines, both labor and mgmt are in lock step on the NAI issue. It's not about entitlement... It's about protecting what those before us fought so hard to build and maintain. If NAI is allowed to circumvent laws the EU and US carriers are bound by, everything they've fought for, and we are trying to build upon and maintain, is lost.

Expat738

NAI is in full compliance with European and I believe US law. The grounds for denial lay more with the spirit of the open skies agreement then with actual Law. (Concerning the outsourcing of cheaper labour)
Again with the pilots now going to be based in the UK you would think that this hole battle would be over. You; we ALPA members have won.

Having lived and worked in Europe for a long time and I might be able to give you some background on this whole issue concerning why Norwegian would like to acquire an Irish certificate.
Norway is not within the European union, however concerning the Us/eu open skies agreement Norway is considered to be in the Eu.
This is not the case if you look at other bilateral agreements concerning other parts of the world and the Eu (Asian and African countries) where Norway is considered outside the EU. This is probably the biggest main reason for an Irish certificate.
As I understand it Norwegian is currently running two certificates, the Irish certificate and the Norwegian certificate. The aircraft that are operated under the Norwegian certificate fly to the US and the aircraft that operate under the Irish certificate fly to Bangkok. Furthermore the pilots can only fly on one or the other certificate. This is as you can see very inefficient.
Don't forget that it was the Norwegian pilot union that originally brought this to ALPA attention. We are on the same team, we all have common goals and that is to protect this job in this industry. Comments such as earlier mentioned, do us collectively no good, and only make us ( airline pilots ) look like idiots.
Norwegian is in my opinion a nice company to work for. They treat us on the short-haul at least with dignity respect. It's a nice Scandinavian working environment.
That's not to say that everything is perfect however we are doing our best to fix what is wrong as pilots.

gloopy

I want them to liquidate. Our leadership should too, and if they somehow get approved we need to bury them with agressive marketing, networking and capacity dumping to choke off their supply. Its them or us. Bury your head in the sand feigning philosophical superiority if you choose, but we have an enemy to deal with.

gloopy

Illegal airlines set up to avoid labor laws when current agreements say you can't do that should liquidate in shame. As for our leadership, I am very concerned about the tactics they will take or not if NAI is allowed to break the law (oh wait, its just an "agreement", so I guess that's ok) like so many other players these days. Its a real possibility. The only answer then is to engage in a short but costly yield war, or gift them capacity as fast as they barf it into the system and let them reach critical mass while we focus only on short term yields.

captjns

Soooo a regional pilot earning $27.00/hr is a major victory? Non restoration of pay and benefits after the majors essentially cut you lads and lasses at the knees is a major step forward?

Sorry, but the post reads like a propaganda article from Pravda, or better the Times of India.

Expat738

Norwegian is not an illegal airline.

Norwegian is not breaking any Law.

Norwegian long haul has the potential to run a very lean low cost operation.

Norwegian operates a VERY profitable short haul operation, with a near monopoly in the Norwegian market. (Aka the Saudi of the north)

They are not going to go out of business anytime soon, that i'm afraid is unrealistic.

As I mentioned earlier Norwegian is going to basing all of its long haul pilots in the eu with eu contracts. The same as all the other European airlines.

At this point I don't see any grounds for the DOT to deny Norwegians application.

Even the worst paid NAI 787 first officer makes more than a US regional jet captain. How about you fix that one first.

ManFlex

Are you talking about NAI or Norwegian Long Haul?

captjns

NAI is not an illegal air carrier. They meet the requirements of the IAA and EASA. Their crews are trained and checked in accordance with established regulations, along with the maintenance of their aircraft.

Like US carriers NAI hires cabin crew in countries where minimum wages are essentially non existent. Yet, I don't read any protests against that, let alone picketing American Airlines on that issue.

What about big business in your back yard? Lowes, The Home Depot. Apple. goods manufactured overseas with substandard labour laws at best.... Yet I don't see anyone out there picketing to protect US jobs.

A Yield war is not going to be successful. This is not like a US carrier moving in on another Domestic carrier's territory to move them out to gain access to a particular route.

I lived and flew or a Low Cost carrier in Eruoland. Cheap fairs is at the top of the list of both business and vacation travelers. It was interesting to observe European mainline carriers complain, about a relatively young carrier with a "Pay for Everything" model invade their territories. Even US carriers have adopted this particular model.

It's up to your management to build a better mouse trap than that of NAI's. And even then there's no guaranty that "you'll" have any job protection.

You know, your airline may become the next Lowes, or Home Depot and purchase labour from overseas. Hope not, but there only one guaranty chum... There's no guaranty in this world except for.... well you know the rest.

tsquare

Yeah, and typhoon is in love with the other enemies that we have to deal with too, so consider the source.

hockeypilot44

You can't compare 787 pay to regional jet pay. Might as well compare a 737 pilot to a caravan pilot. I agree that regional jet pay is low, but the pilots flying them seem more than happy to do it cheaper if it results in growth for their company. I don't understand that mentality. These same pilots then pretend to be victims.