NAI's Temporary Exemption Denied!
09-05-2014 | 03:38 PM
#31
Banned
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,655
Likes: 0
From: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
NAI is not an illegal air carrier. They meet the requirements of the IAA and EASA. Their crews are trained and checked in accordance with established regulations, along with the maintenance of their aircraft.
Like US carriers NAI hires cabin crew in countries where minimum wages are essentially non existent. Yet, I don't read any protests against that, let alone picketing American Airlines on that issue.
What about big business in your back yard? Lowes, The Home Depot. Apple. goods manufactured overseas with substandard labour laws at best.... Yet I don't see anyone out there picketing to protect US jobs.
A Yield war is not going to be successful. This is not like a US carrier moving in on another Domestic carrier's territory to move them out to gain access to a particular route.
I lived and flew or a Low Cost carrier in Eruoland. Cheap fairs is at the top of the list of both business and vacation travelers. It was interesting to observe European mainline carriers complain, about a relatively young carrier with a "Pay for Everything" model invade their territories. Even US carriers have adopted this particular model.
It's up to your management to build a better mouse trap than that of NAI's. And even then there's no guaranty that "you'll" have any job protection.
You know, your airline may become the next Lowes, or Home Depot and purchase labour from overseas. Hope not, but there only one guaranty chum... There's no guaranty in this world except for.... well you know the rest.
Like US carriers NAI hires cabin crew in countries where minimum wages are essentially non existent. Yet, I don't read any protests against that, let alone picketing American Airlines on that issue.
What about big business in your back yard? Lowes, The Home Depot. Apple. goods manufactured overseas with substandard labour laws at best.... Yet I don't see anyone out there picketing to protect US jobs.
A Yield war is not going to be successful. This is not like a US carrier moving in on another Domestic carrier's territory to move them out to gain access to a particular route.
I lived and flew or a Low Cost carrier in Eruoland. Cheap fairs is at the top of the list of both business and vacation travelers. It was interesting to observe European mainline carriers complain, about a relatively young carrier with a "Pay for Everything" model invade their territories. Even US carriers have adopted this particular model.
It's up to your management to build a better mouse trap than that of NAI's. And even then there's no guaranty that "you'll" have any job protection.
You know, your airline may become the next Lowes, or Home Depot and purchase labour from overseas. Hope not, but there only one guaranty chum... There's no guaranty in this world except for.... well you know the rest.
NAI wants to cert their operation and aircraft in a country that they will never visit, let alone employ people or follow labor laws.
This is exactly what has happened to the maritime industry and why now all the ships are registered in Panama, etc. Little to no rules for safety/labor is what the industry will seek if permitted.
09-05-2014 | 03:54 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,232
Likes: 62
From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Home Depot and lowes are not allowed to hire a bunch of Thai expats at substandard wages to man their stores. Your analogy does not make sense.
NAI wants to cert their operation and aircraft in a country that they will never visit, let alone employ people or follow labor laws.
This is exactly what has happened to the maritime industry and why now all the ships are registered in Panama, etc. Little to no rules for safety/labor is what the industry will seek if permitted.
NAI wants to cert their operation and aircraft in a country that they will never visit, let alone employ people or follow labor laws.
This is exactly what has happened to the maritime industry and why now all the ships are registered in Panama, etc. Little to no rules for safety/labor is what the industry will seek if permitted.
By the way... The computer or tablet you opining your views upon... Where was it manufactured? Did your search to ensure it was not assembled with the use of slave or child labour laws? Do you realize you are taking food out of the mouths of the US labour Market for every item purchased that is manufactured outside the US, not to mention income for the US treasury too.
US carriers cut back wages and terminated generous benefit plans. But that's OK with you. Regional pilots flying same routes as main line pilots are paid a fraction do their counter parts... That's OK too?
One term comes to mind... Bit of a double standard I'd say.
By the way... It common for many carriers to operate EI registered carriers on an AOC other than their home territories. No different then US companies having off shore businesses for the same purpose... avoiding taxes and certain labour laws.
Last edited by captjns; 09-05-2014 at 04:11 PM.
09-05-2014 | 08:42 PM
#33
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 0
From: tri current
Logic and sound arguments are not going to work with some of the posters on this message board. Glad to see Expat738 here giving some inside scoop on Norwegian.
Did I post the article about Ryanair looking at 787s or A350s for service across the North Atlantic? It's coming, so even if NAI is declined the U.S. carriers are going to have learn to compete against international LCCs. Then you've got Azul out of Brazil which will eat into South American yields.
ALPA pilots have a history of failed strategies which end up hurting the profession. Witness the scope battles of the 80s and 90s. Their protectionist strategy here is another big loser over the long run.
Simple minds gravitate towards this rhetoric of hatred that Gloopy and a few others spew not realizing they are hurting themselves to listen and act on it. Reminiscent of the Germans under Hitler
Would it be great if we could all be employed by a high paying carriers with great benefits and a great pension plan? Heck yes, but the sad reality are that those days are gone for most thanks in large part to ALPAs failed strategies and structure.
Airline competition isn't a level playing field. It never was and it never will be. The U.S. airlines can compete with good service; a good product; efficiencies; and good strategies. I wouldn't buy a ticket on Norwegian over DAL ( I'll be a DAL Diamond Sky Miles member by the end of the year ). But if Gloopy came back into Business Elite spewing one of his ludicrous diatribes I might have to switch to the Oneworld Alliance on principle.
Actually Typhoon is just a voice of reason. Some people get it and some don't, that's okay
The U.S. carriers can compete. They choose not to and are giving up market share in the process. The world air travel market is growing. There is revenue out there for the taking. Protectionist strategies are not going to help get any of if though.
Typhoonpilot
Did I post the article about Ryanair looking at 787s or A350s for service across the North Atlantic? It's coming, so even if NAI is declined the U.S. carriers are going to have learn to compete against international LCCs. Then you've got Azul out of Brazil which will eat into South American yields.
ALPA pilots have a history of failed strategies which end up hurting the profession. Witness the scope battles of the 80s and 90s. Their protectionist strategy here is another big loser over the long run.
Simple minds gravitate towards this rhetoric of hatred that Gloopy and a few others spew not realizing they are hurting themselves to listen and act on it. Reminiscent of the Germans under Hitler
Would it be great if we could all be employed by a high paying carriers with great benefits and a great pension plan? Heck yes, but the sad reality are that those days are gone for most thanks in large part to ALPAs failed strategies and structure.
Airline competition isn't a level playing field. It never was and it never will be. The U.S. airlines can compete with good service; a good product; efficiencies; and good strategies. I wouldn't buy a ticket on Norwegian over DAL ( I'll be a DAL Diamond Sky Miles member by the end of the year ). But if Gloopy came back into Business Elite spewing one of his ludicrous diatribes I might have to switch to the Oneworld Alliance on principle.
Yeah, and typhoon is in love with the other enemies that we have to deal with too, so consider the source.
Actually Typhoon is just a voice of reason. Some people get it and some don't, that's okay
The U.S. carriers can compete. They choose not to and are giving up market share in the process. The world air travel market is growing. There is revenue out there for the taking. Protectionist strategies are not going to help get any of if though.
Typhoonpilot
Last edited by Typhoonpilot; 09-05-2014 at 08:56 PM.
09-05-2014 | 08:58 PM
#34
New Hire
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
This is as I have been saying no longer the case. Pilots and employment contract to be moved back to Europe within the next few months.
09-05-2014 | 09:08 PM
#35
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 0
From: tri current
Maritime boom: More hands needed on deck
By Mary Thompson
Karina Frayter | CNBC
On a typical sunny Southern California day, a bright red tugboat cuts through the channel in the Port of Los Angeles/Long Beach. On the banks, containers filled with cargo are stacked high. Massive cranes dip in to pull them out one at a time and load them onto waiting vessels.
After a steep drop in activity that followed the Great Recession, the maritime industry is growing again. In 2012, global seaborne trade reached 9 billion metric tons for the first time ever, according to the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development. The growth in trade is translating into growth in jobs.
"Our plan is to hire 500 to 600 maritime workers over the next five years," said Thomas Crowley, CEO of Crowley Maritime.
The family-owned company based in Jacksonville, Florida, will find it has some competition when it looks to build its 5,000 person workforce. A 2010 report from the International Maritime Organization forecast the industry could be short 27,000 to 46,000 officers to man the world's tankers, cargo and container ships and tugboats over the next few years.
One of the key reasons for the labor shortage-the energy boom.
"When the oil industry is doing well, you end up with shortages in the maritime industry," said Bart Rogers, assistant vice president at the Paul Hall Center for Maritime Training, a school run by the Seafarers International Union.
Along with the added demand for ships to move higher volumes of crude oil and natural gas over water, the maritime industry faces the challenge of managing an aging workforce. Increasingly, the world's vessels are commanded by officers nearing retirement age, and replacing them has become more difficult. New regulations mandated by the 2010 Manila Convention mean all hands on deck, or below, need added training and more days at sea. This means it takes longer to move up a ship's ladder from a deckhand to the skilled positions of third, second and first mate, chief engineer and captain.
"You can't just go and work on a ship or a boat anymore," Rogers said. "You have to be qualified and you have to be trained."
To make sure it is getting the workers it needs, Crowley works closely with the nation's six maritime academies, which produce officers, and the maritime unions, which recruit and then train prospective hires who start at a lower level but can work their way up.
"They are our partners," Crowley said of the unions. "They provide training, work on regulations in a number of different parts of the industry. It's an important part of how we operate."
Among the students at the Paul Hall Center in Piney Point, Maryland, is 30-year-old Martin McDonald. A divorced father of two and Iraq war veteran, he settled on a maritime career because he liked the lifestyle it afforded his friends who were in it.
"They have lucrative time off. They have nice houses," he said. "They live without want, essentially, when they are off ship. They travel to all sorts of places in both their careers and leisure time."
Steve Peckham, a 20-year veteran of the maritime industry and captain of Crowley's L.A.-based tugboat Scout, puts it another way. "I work two weeks on, two weeks off," said Peckham, who lives in Rhode Island and flies to Los Angeles to work. "It's kind of like I go on vacation every month."
Getting to sit in the captain's chair takes time though. McDonald is just getting qualified to work on a vessel, meaning he is being trained in first aid, rescue and survival, firefighting and the basics of operating a ship. It's a three-month program. The former Marine will then need to log 1,080 days on a vessel before he can apply for licensing programs that would move him into the officers ranks.
"I want to have my own ship by 50," he said. "That is my goal."
If he reaches that goal, McDonald will be pulling down a six-figure salary. In general, working in the maritime industry pays well. An entry level, able bodied seaman, a classification McDonald hopes to obtain in the next 18 months, can earn $40,000 to $50,000 a year. A fully trained engineer or mate, a mid-tiered position, can earn $70,000 to $90,000.
"These are very high-paying jobs," said Crowley, who added even though the looming labor shortage has not yet hit the company's bottom line, the firm might have to pay higher wages and signing bonuses whenever there is a shortage.
Rogers notes the shortage is not acute right now, but it is something the union, and the industry, are keeping a very close eye on.
"A lot of the shortage exists in the inland field," said Rogers, referring to vessels that sail on lakes and rivers. "We maintain our pool at two people for every job all the time. What you would like to have is 2˝ people for every job."
-By CNBC's Mary Thompson
Well, I guess there goes that argument.
TP
09-05-2014 | 09:50 PM
#36
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
Us Unions will fight the Wal Marts of the skies. Those of you who support these scumbag operations, get over it. I know you don't like it, since it fights those who write your checks. I don't shop at Wal-Mart. I refuse to. I shop at union stores. I buy union cars. I will continue to fight scum bags like Bjorn Kjos who wish to pay his employees slave wages in order to pad his own wallet. NAI is an attempt to circumvent the Open Skies agreement. If you don't acknowledge that, then you're no better than that dirtbag Kjos.
09-05-2014 | 09:52 PM
#37
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
Maritime boom: More hands needed on deck
By Mary Thompson
Karina Frayter | CNBC
On a typical sunny Southern California day, a bright red tugboat cuts through the channel in the Port of Los Angeles/Long Beach. On the banks, containers filled with cargo are stacked high. Massive cranes dip in to pull them out one at a time and load them onto waiting vessels.
After a steep drop in activity that followed the Great Recession, the maritime industry is growing again. In 2012, global seaborne trade reached 9 billion metric tons for the first time ever, according to the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development. The growth in trade is translating into growth in jobs.
"Our plan is to hire 500 to 600 maritime workers over the next five years," said Thomas Crowley, CEO of Crowley Maritime.
The family-owned company based in Jacksonville, Florida, will find it has some competition when it looks to build its 5,000 person workforce. A 2010 report from the International Maritime Organization forecast the industry could be short 27,000 to 46,000 officers to man the world's tankers, cargo and container ships and tugboats over the next few years.
One of the key reasons for the labor shortage-the energy boom.
"When the oil industry is doing well, you end up with shortages in the maritime industry," said Bart Rogers, assistant vice president at the Paul Hall Center for Maritime Training, a school run by the Seafarers International Union.
Along with the added demand for ships to move higher volumes of crude oil and natural gas over water, the maritime industry faces the challenge of managing an aging workforce. Increasingly, the world's vessels are commanded by officers nearing retirement age, and replacing them has become more difficult. New regulations mandated by the 2010 Manila Convention mean all hands on deck, or below, need added training and more days at sea. This means it takes longer to move up a ship's ladder from a deckhand to the skilled positions of third, second and first mate, chief engineer and captain.
"You can't just go and work on a ship or a boat anymore," Rogers said. "You have to be qualified and you have to be trained."
To make sure it is getting the workers it needs, Crowley works closely with the nation's six maritime academies, which produce officers, and the maritime unions, which recruit and then train prospective hires who start at a lower level but can work their way up.
"They are our partners," Crowley said of the unions. "They provide training, work on regulations in a number of different parts of the industry. It's an important part of how we operate."
Among the students at the Paul Hall Center in Piney Point, Maryland, is 30-year-old Martin McDonald. A divorced father of two and Iraq war veteran, he settled on a maritime career because he liked the lifestyle it afforded his friends who were in it.
"They have lucrative time off. They have nice houses," he said. "They live without want, essentially, when they are off ship. They travel to all sorts of places in both their careers and leisure time."
Steve Peckham, a 20-year veteran of the maritime industry and captain of Crowley's L.A.-based tugboat Scout, puts it another way. "I work two weeks on, two weeks off," said Peckham, who lives in Rhode Island and flies to Los Angeles to work. "It's kind of like I go on vacation every month."
Getting to sit in the captain's chair takes time though. McDonald is just getting qualified to work on a vessel, meaning he is being trained in first aid, rescue and survival, firefighting and the basics of operating a ship. It's a three-month program. The former Marine will then need to log 1,080 days on a vessel before he can apply for licensing programs that would move him into the officers ranks.
"I want to have my own ship by 50," he said. "That is my goal."
If he reaches that goal, McDonald will be pulling down a six-figure salary. In general, working in the maritime industry pays well. An entry level, able bodied seaman, a classification McDonald hopes to obtain in the next 18 months, can earn $40,000 to $50,000 a year. A fully trained engineer or mate, a mid-tiered position, can earn $70,000 to $90,000.
"These are very high-paying jobs," said Crowley, who added even though the looming labor shortage has not yet hit the company's bottom line, the firm might have to pay higher wages and signing bonuses whenever there is a shortage.
Rogers notes the shortage is not acute right now, but it is something the union, and the industry, are keeping a very close eye on.
"A lot of the shortage exists in the inland field," said Rogers, referring to vessels that sail on lakes and rivers. "We maintain our pool at two people for every job all the time. What you would like to have is 2˝ people for every job."
-By CNBC's Mary Thompson
Well, I guess there goes that argument.
TP
By Mary Thompson
Karina Frayter | CNBC
On a typical sunny Southern California day, a bright red tugboat cuts through the channel in the Port of Los Angeles/Long Beach. On the banks, containers filled with cargo are stacked high. Massive cranes dip in to pull them out one at a time and load them onto waiting vessels.
After a steep drop in activity that followed the Great Recession, the maritime industry is growing again. In 2012, global seaborne trade reached 9 billion metric tons for the first time ever, according to the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development. The growth in trade is translating into growth in jobs.
"Our plan is to hire 500 to 600 maritime workers over the next five years," said Thomas Crowley, CEO of Crowley Maritime.
The family-owned company based in Jacksonville, Florida, will find it has some competition when it looks to build its 5,000 person workforce. A 2010 report from the International Maritime Organization forecast the industry could be short 27,000 to 46,000 officers to man the world's tankers, cargo and container ships and tugboats over the next few years.
One of the key reasons for the labor shortage-the energy boom.
"When the oil industry is doing well, you end up with shortages in the maritime industry," said Bart Rogers, assistant vice president at the Paul Hall Center for Maritime Training, a school run by the Seafarers International Union.
Along with the added demand for ships to move higher volumes of crude oil and natural gas over water, the maritime industry faces the challenge of managing an aging workforce. Increasingly, the world's vessels are commanded by officers nearing retirement age, and replacing them has become more difficult. New regulations mandated by the 2010 Manila Convention mean all hands on deck, or below, need added training and more days at sea. This means it takes longer to move up a ship's ladder from a deckhand to the skilled positions of third, second and first mate, chief engineer and captain.
"You can't just go and work on a ship or a boat anymore," Rogers said. "You have to be qualified and you have to be trained."
To make sure it is getting the workers it needs, Crowley works closely with the nation's six maritime academies, which produce officers, and the maritime unions, which recruit and then train prospective hires who start at a lower level but can work their way up.
"They are our partners," Crowley said of the unions. "They provide training, work on regulations in a number of different parts of the industry. It's an important part of how we operate."
Among the students at the Paul Hall Center in Piney Point, Maryland, is 30-year-old Martin McDonald. A divorced father of two and Iraq war veteran, he settled on a maritime career because he liked the lifestyle it afforded his friends who were in it.
"They have lucrative time off. They have nice houses," he said. "They live without want, essentially, when they are off ship. They travel to all sorts of places in both their careers and leisure time."
Steve Peckham, a 20-year veteran of the maritime industry and captain of Crowley's L.A.-based tugboat Scout, puts it another way. "I work two weeks on, two weeks off," said Peckham, who lives in Rhode Island and flies to Los Angeles to work. "It's kind of like I go on vacation every month."
Getting to sit in the captain's chair takes time though. McDonald is just getting qualified to work on a vessel, meaning he is being trained in first aid, rescue and survival, firefighting and the basics of operating a ship. It's a three-month program. The former Marine will then need to log 1,080 days on a vessel before he can apply for licensing programs that would move him into the officers ranks.
"I want to have my own ship by 50," he said. "That is my goal."
If he reaches that goal, McDonald will be pulling down a six-figure salary. In general, working in the maritime industry pays well. An entry level, able bodied seaman, a classification McDonald hopes to obtain in the next 18 months, can earn $40,000 to $50,000 a year. A fully trained engineer or mate, a mid-tiered position, can earn $70,000 to $90,000.
"These are very high-paying jobs," said Crowley, who added even though the looming labor shortage has not yet hit the company's bottom line, the firm might have to pay higher wages and signing bonuses whenever there is a shortage.
Rogers notes the shortage is not acute right now, but it is something the union, and the industry, are keeping a very close eye on.
"A lot of the shortage exists in the inland field," said Rogers, referring to vessels that sail on lakes and rivers. "We maintain our pool at two people for every job all the time. What you would like to have is 2˝ people for every job."
-By CNBC's Mary Thompson
Well, I guess there goes that argument.
TP
BTW, $70K-$90K is far from a high paying job.
09-05-2014 | 09:53 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,232
Likes: 62
From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Us Unions will fight the Wal Marts of the skies. Those of you who support these scumbag operations, get over it. I know you don't like it, since it fights those who write our checks. I don't shop at Wal-Mart. I refuse to. I shop at union stores. I buy union cars. I will continue to fight scum bags like Bjorn Kjos who wish to pay his employees slave wages in order to pad his own wallet. NAI is an attempt to circumvent the Open Skies agreement. If you don't acknowledge that, then you're no better than that dirtbag Kjos.
09-05-2014 | 10:09 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,232
Likes: 62
From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
An airline paying wages to an employee, who is a member of a union, below the threshold amount to qualify for food stamps is a disgrace! It's not NAI... It's airline management and the union representation! or lack thereof is hurting the industry and the members of APC.
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