"What's the Class Drop?"
09-12-2014 | 06:50 PM
#62
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Very humble, you'd never know it, he never talked about it.
He put in 23+ years active duty and then got out, hired at DL in... 2010.
09-12-2014 | 07:04 PM
#63
What’s it doing now?
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 726
Likes: 0
From: 190CA
Wow that escalated quickly.
To the military folks who have enlightened us on what 'the drop' is, thanks for your service. I've know a few people who got just what they wanted, a few that didn't make it through and more than a few instructors and back seaters. They're all good people. Zoomies, mids, and cadets on the Hudson are all a little off but I'd suppose you have to be.
The class drop after civilian training pretty much has us all being FAIPs, for better or worse. Later in the airline world, it's rather unimportant. Class seniority is usually based on age or something arbitrary not how well you did. And if you didn't get what you wanted its a few months to a couple years to get what you did. But you can always tell who has lots of turboprop time. They stand a little too close when you're talking.
To the military folks who have enlightened us on what 'the drop' is, thanks for your service. I've know a few people who got just what they wanted, a few that didn't make it through and more than a few instructors and back seaters. They're all good people. Zoomies, mids, and cadets on the Hudson are all a little off but I'd suppose you have to be.
The class drop after civilian training pretty much has us all being FAIPs, for better or worse. Later in the airline world, it's rather unimportant. Class seniority is usually based on age or something arbitrary not how well you did. And if you didn't get what you wanted its a few months to a couple years to get what you did. But you can always tell who has lots of turboprop time. They stand a little too close when you're talking.
09-12-2014 | 07:19 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 0
From: B737 CA
Ach, for FFS, let's not screw up a cool thread with the same old tired Mil vs Civ crap. Two different worlds, & we're better for getting to fly with people who have experience in each.
Love flying with Mil guys, hearing about IPT, drop night, the old squadrons, the legendary parties, getting shot at, making history, the bros that didn't make it home. Just don't make it "all about me" and disrespect civ guys, and we can get along great.
Love flying with Civ guys, hearing about the crappy old rustbuckets they learned to fly in, the students who tried to kill them, flying night freight in crap wx, scheming their way into that first airline job, the pals that didn't make it home. Just don't make it "all about me" and rag on the mil guys, and we can get along great.
Carry on with the funny stories. Speaking of which...
Funny story & cool post! As well as the later one relating the significance of drop night for us civ guys 
.
Love flying with Mil guys, hearing about IPT, drop night, the old squadrons, the legendary parties, getting shot at, making history, the bros that didn't make it home. Just don't make it "all about me" and disrespect civ guys, and we can get along great.
Love flying with Civ guys, hearing about the crappy old rustbuckets they learned to fly in, the students who tried to kill them, flying night freight in crap wx, scheming their way into that first airline job, the pals that didn't make it home. Just don't make it "all about me" and rag on the mil guys, and we can get along great.
Carry on with the funny stories. Speaking of which...
Yeah, as a 4,500hr. ATP rated civilian going through AF UPT, I always thought it was funny they would spend more time briefing than flying! 90 minute brief for a one hour flight! 
One day my T37 IP asked me, "So...when you were flying freight...what did you guys brief?"
I said, "Nothing, we got in the plane, we started it up, and we went flying..."
He said, "Well, what about the weather? Didn't you brief the weather, and the approaches?"
I said, "Nope, we didn't give a sh!t what the weather was, we just went. We had to go anyway or we'd get fired. If the weather at the destination was bad...well...we found it anyway."
He said, "So you busted Mins?"
I said, "No, we just found the runway and landed."
Tower would sometimes ask us, "What's the ceiling out there?" and we'd answer, "It's right AT mins..."
(Freight dog code for...it's bleak)
Another Guard Guy with 3,500hrs. and a DC 8 copilot prior (Rich Air, out of MIA, flying 'stuff' to South America), who was in my UPT class said of AF Pilot Training,
"The SOF keeps a piece of blue plastic behind his desk. Every morning he holds it up to the sky, and if the colors don't match it's 'no solo's to the areas'! I just hope that when the Russians come, the weather is good!"
One day my T37 IP asked me, "So...when you were flying freight...what did you guys brief?"
I said, "Nothing, we got in the plane, we started it up, and we went flying..."
He said, "Well, what about the weather? Didn't you brief the weather, and the approaches?"
I said, "Nope, we didn't give a sh!t what the weather was, we just went. We had to go anyway or we'd get fired. If the weather at the destination was bad...well...we found it anyway."
He said, "So you busted Mins?"
I said, "No, we just found the runway and landed."
Tower would sometimes ask us, "What's the ceiling out there?" and we'd answer, "It's right AT mins..."
(Freight dog code for...it's bleak)
Another Guard Guy with 3,500hrs. and a DC 8 copilot prior (Rich Air, out of MIA, flying 'stuff' to South America), who was in my UPT class said of AF Pilot Training,
"The SOF keeps a piece of blue plastic behind his desk. Every morning he holds it up to the sky, and if the colors don't match it's 'no solo's to the areas'! I just hope that when the Russians come, the weather is good!"
.
09-12-2014 | 07:58 PM
#65
Looking for a laugh
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 0
You guys crack me up! As a former military person with civilian only flight time, I find these DM contests hysterical. Although, they eventually just lead to head shaking. Having lived in both worlds gives you a unique perspective.
FWIW, there are worse training enviroments than UPT.
FWIW, there are worse training enviroments than UPT.
09-12-2014 | 09:39 PM
#66
Working weekends
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,384
Likes: 0
From: Left Seat
Are you really comparing flying cancelled checks with flying an F-117 over Baghdad during the first night of Desert Storm, or the helo guys that flew SEAL Team 6 into Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan, or my airdropping of the 82nd Airborne into Grenada while AAA guns were raking the airplane? Really? Were you shot at? Did you watch your buddies get shot down and die? Did you have the American flag on your shoulder and your fellow soldiers depending on you to not eff up? Really?
We don't all have similar "bones." Please don't try and compare my experience to yours. It's not the same and you cannot understand that. At our current airline, we're all equal. That's great. But don't assume you know what the military guys have gone through and experienced. Just don't.
I guess its a generational thing. You guys are more clueless than I could ever have imagined.
We don't all have similar "bones." Please don't try and compare my experience to yours. It's not the same and you cannot understand that. At our current airline, we're all equal. That's great. But don't assume you know what the military guys have gone through and experienced. Just don't.
I guess its a generational thing. You guys are more clueless than I could ever have imagined.
09-13-2014 | 07:16 AM
#67
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Bar, with all due respect, you don't get it, because you never suffered the scrutiny of going through Military Flight Training.
The thing about Military Flight Training and Drop Nighte is, once you get your wings, they OWN YOU!
Unlike my soft Civilian Pilot life before joining the AF, you can't just walk away if you don't like what you get, and go look for another job flying for someone else.
You have to perform, or your going to be in a missile silo in Turky for 6 years!
Drop night is the MOST IMPORTANT NIGHT OF YOUR LIFE!!
Why?
Because it determines your career path, and most likely the rest of your life while in the Military.
Your first assignment lasts about 3 years, kiss all the right asses, maybe you get a better assignment after that. There is NOTHING you can do about it and it's a lot like Russian Roulette.
Fighter? Heavy? IP? Where??
On the beach?
Or in Europe?
Or please no God...
NOT a B52 to Minot!
That's why we get drunk, that's why we blow it out, it's your last chance. The next day you are going to have to wake up and face the reality of your assignment....for the rest of your career.
It's a lot more important than any Frat party, or which RJ you got.
The thing about Military Flight Training and Drop Nighte is, once you get your wings, they OWN YOU!
Unlike my soft Civilian Pilot life before joining the AF, you can't just walk away if you don't like what you get, and go look for another job flying for someone else.
You have to perform, or your going to be in a missile silo in Turky for 6 years!
Drop night is the MOST IMPORTANT NIGHT OF YOUR LIFE!!
Why?
Because it determines your career path, and most likely the rest of your life while in the Military.
Your first assignment lasts about 3 years, kiss all the right asses, maybe you get a better assignment after that. There is NOTHING you can do about it and it's a lot like Russian Roulette.
Fighter? Heavy? IP? Where??
On the beach?
Or in Europe?
Or please no God...
NOT a B52 to Minot!
That's why we get drunk, that's why we blow it out, it's your last chance. The next day you are going to have to wake up and face the reality of your assignment....for the rest of your career.
It's a lot more important than any Frat party, or which RJ you got.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-13-2014 at 07:49 AM.
09-13-2014 | 07:42 AM
#68
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 1
From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Bucking Bar the unity builder.
Good grief. No one said or implied anything about mil/civ comparisons until you did.
If you don't like stories about drop night or UPT buffoonery in general, you are not obligated to read them.
09-13-2014 | 07:54 AM
#69
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Purple,
"Unity" isn't defined as whether you and I like each other.
"Unity" is one bargaining agent having exclusive control over the Company's productive capacity so they can negotiate from a position of strength and obtain the best pay and working conditions for our labor.
You make fun of unity because you do not understand what it is, or how you benefit.
"Unity" isn't defined as whether you and I like each other.
"Unity" is one bargaining agent having exclusive control over the Company's productive capacity so they can negotiate from a position of strength and obtain the best pay and working conditions for our labor.
You make fun of unity because you do not understand what it is, or how you benefit.
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