Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot

No question that QR and EY receive significant support from their respective government, EK less so.

That said, there are some slightly arrogant and ignorant assumptions in the majority of talk on this subject. "We have the biggest travel market in the world and therefore deserve to remain the biggest carriers". Well, not anymore you don't. Look at these charts to see some interesting statistics:

World's busiest passenger air routes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyone with a modicum of intelligence will be able to see that world travel trends are changing, and not in favor of the U.S. or European legacy airlines.

There are only 1 billion people in all of the Americas and only 1 billion people in all of Europe (including eastern Europe). There are 4 billion in Asia and 1 billion in Africa. Asia is going to add another 1 billion and Africa is likely to add another 2 billion by 2100. This while the population in Europe and the Americas is likely to decline.

So where is the growth and who is positioned to benefit from it?

A little less whining and a little more vision from the leaders of the U.S. and European legacy carriers would go a long way towards confronting the problems they will face with changing global demographics and global travel trends.

I don't proclaim to know how best to respond to the "threat" of the Middle East carriers, but can almost certainly guarantee that protectionism is not the answer.

It's interesting to see that management at FedEx and Atlas is vocally against what the Legacy 3 and ALPA are supporting. FedEx and Atlas pilots would be adversely affected by any protectionist measures adopted by the USA in the form of reprisals. They fly significant 5th or 7th freedom type routes and their business model depends heavily on that. UPS can be included in there too, I guess. JetBlue and a few others code share with the some of the Middle East three. So doesn't that benefit their pilots with increased connecting traffic?

Be careful what you wish for, it may not be exactly what you think it will be.

But that's pretty typical of anything that ALPA touches. It was partially their arrogance that subjected us to twenty plus years of RJs and super low wages for a significant number of professional pilots in the USA.



Typhoonpilot

Originally Posted by RockyBoy

I agree. Let the ME carriers go for the Asia/Africa traffic. Stay out of the U.S. and Europe unless you want to play by the rules.

Originally Posted by Readback

I see the ALPA droids are in full bloom.

Hence, the stench of ignorance!

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44

There may be 1 billion people in Africa and 4 billion in Asia, but the money is in the US. The Asia-Africa market should be served by airlines in the countries being served. Emirates pays nowhere near what a US legacy pays these days. The financial advantage comes in government subsidies, slave flight attendant labor, and The Import-Export bank loans. It's no secret formula here. The middle Eastern carriers are going to want a super widebody flying from every single major US airport to the middle east in the long run. You know it and I know it. I'm not sure why you are so big on defending them. They are not good for the piloting profession.

Originally Posted by Readback

I see the ALPA droids are in full bloom.

Hence, the stench of ignorance!

Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot

Thank you, point's proven.


TP

Originally Posted by Readback

I see the ALPA droids are in full bloom.

Hence, the stench of ignorance!

Originally Posted by Denny Crane

A couple of simple questions.

Do the three Mid-East carriers being discussed receive subsidies from their respective governments?

Do these same carriers receive loans on wide body aircraft from the ex-im bank at reduced interest rates that US carriers cannot get?

Denny

Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot

Stated in my initial post, no question that EY and QR receive significant support from their respective governments, EK less so.

As for question two, here is an interesting tidbit for you:

From 2008 through 2013, Ex-Im supported deliveries of 789 Boeing large commercial aircraft, and European export credit agencies (ECA) supported deliveries of 821 Airbus large commercial aircraft.

So, did U.S. carriers benefit from ECA financing that European airlines can not get?



Typhoonpilot