SWA AAI final outcome?
05-03-2015, 12:50 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 305
Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
Ah, no wonder you got hired at SW. You're elitist "we're better than you" attitude just exudes from your post. Too bad you weren't around during SLI negotiations. With a pompous attitude like that you would have fit right in on their Merger Committee.
Just a hunch, but you weren't prior military with no 121 time, were you?
Just a hunch, but you weren't prior military with no 121 time, were you?
And for the 4th time now, you won't even touch with a 10' pole my valid argument that your long term personal financial situation is WAY better now than had SWA never acquired your former employer. I think we've all got that now -- you refuse to acknowledge that FACT because you'd rather hang on tightly to your anger and vitriol. Good luck with that.
05-03-2015, 01:13 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,615
I do and have acknowledged in the past the benefits of this merger. The biggest (only) one being better long-term stability. That is no excuse for the shenanigans that SWAPA and management pulled, or justification to look down your nose at us which you so blatantly do.
My long-term finances might be better in theory, but my short to mid-term ones are noticeably worse. If you need to tell yourself that what we got as a pilot group was justified because we "hit the SWA jackpot" then go ahead if it makes you feel better. The facts are that I'm living under a 20%+ pay cut for several years to come. At that $chitty little airline you claim to forget the name of now, I made 77K during my last three months because I worked hard in preparation for the pending pay cut. I could do that because I was senior as a Cptn in base. When I transitioned over I lost over 20% in bidding power AFTER GETTING DOWNGRADED NO LESS! You expect me or others not to be pi$$ed about that kind of screw-job? Go pound sand, bud!
With the practically zero to minimal growth at SW the seniority hit and downgrade will take A LONG time to recoup. In fact, my relative seniority recovery was calculated at 15 years in a zero growth environment, and yes I do feel that relative would have been the fair and equitable way to handle the SLI (or at least DOH for crying out loud but we didn't even come close to that). We weren't bankrupt and we were bought for our assets, markets and to get rid of a competitor than SWA was increasingly worried about.
Furthermore, this crappy little airline that you thumb your nose at had a MUCH better product and a Flt Ops/Training department that was far superior than that at the big regional with 737s. Shoot, that's even a compliment as if you ask any former regional airline pilot that's now at SW they'll tell you just how f'ked up the training department and flight ops are at this Mickey Mouse airline in comparison. What a joke. There's a severe event practically every month that miraculously doesn't make it into the news.
My long-term finances might be better in theory, but my short to mid-term ones are noticeably worse. If you need to tell yourself that what we got as a pilot group was justified because we "hit the SWA jackpot" then go ahead if it makes you feel better. The facts are that I'm living under a 20%+ pay cut for several years to come. At that $chitty little airline you claim to forget the name of now, I made 77K during my last three months because I worked hard in preparation for the pending pay cut. I could do that because I was senior as a Cptn in base. When I transitioned over I lost over 20% in bidding power AFTER GETTING DOWNGRADED NO LESS! You expect me or others not to be pi$$ed about that kind of screw-job? Go pound sand, bud!
With the practically zero to minimal growth at SW the seniority hit and downgrade will take A LONG time to recoup. In fact, my relative seniority recovery was calculated at 15 years in a zero growth environment, and yes I do feel that relative would have been the fair and equitable way to handle the SLI (or at least DOH for crying out loud but we didn't even come close to that). We weren't bankrupt and we were bought for our assets, markets and to get rid of a competitor than SWA was increasingly worried about.
Furthermore, this crappy little airline that you thumb your nose at had a MUCH better product and a Flt Ops/Training department that was far superior than that at the big regional with 737s. Shoot, that's even a compliment as if you ask any former regional airline pilot that's now at SW they'll tell you just how f'ked up the training department and flight ops are at this Mickey Mouse airline in comparison. What a joke. There's a severe event practically every month that miraculously doesn't make it into the news.
05-03-2015, 03:56 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
Posts: 2,100
He is tripping if he thinks Air Tran was a better product than SWA, I have sampled both, I heard that 70% of the Air Tran guys had apps in at SWA. No disrespect but a little dose of reality , and clarity.
05-03-2015, 04:51 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 711
Originally Posted by 727C47
He is tripping if he thinks Air Tran was a better product than SWA, I have sampled both, I heard that 70% of the Air Tran guys had apps in at SWA. No disrespect but a little dose of reality , and clarity.
05-03-2015, 06:28 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,615
Originally Posted by 727C47
He is tripping if he thinks Air Tran was a better product than SWA, I have sampled both, I heard that 70% of the Air Tran guys had apps in at SWA. No disrespect but a little dose of reality , and clarity.
Bologna on the 70% thing.
05-03-2015, 06:36 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,615
Originally Posted by DCA A321 FO
Will a MOD please change this guy's name to WHINEMASTER now?
Your income is probably in the top 5% in the U S, if you have financial problems it's your fault.
Your income is probably in the top 5% in the U S, if you have financial problems it's your fault.
Read the title of the thread. I'm keeping the record straight in response to that. What kind of posts were you expecting under "SWA AAI Final Outcome"?
05-03-2015, 07:02 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
Posts: 2,100
Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
Actually, it DID have a product that many people preferred to SWA. The world's most affordable business class, Gogo wifi that actually worked as opposed to this Row 44 crap, ASSIGNED SEATS, free internet radio, and cheap upgrades. We were vote AQR airline of the year numerous times. It wasn't an Emirates level service and product but certainly many many people preferred it to the cattle car.
Bologna on the 70% thing.
Bologna on the 70% thing.
05-03-2015, 08:33 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by shoelu
1) Corporate entities decide merger/acquisition is in INVESTORS best interest.
2) Corporations announce merger/acquisition.
3) Unions informed of proposed merger/acquisition.
4) 4 party talks take place (union/management) to confer about best practices going forward.
5) 4 party talks produce process agreement.
6) Process agreement lays out desired path towards integration.
7) Process agreement states:
WHEREAS, Section 13(b) of Allegheny-Mohawk authorizes the Parties to utilize an agreed-upon alternative method to resolve the seniority integration issues; and
WHEREAS, Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (“SWAPA”), the Air Line Pilots Association (“ALPA”), Southwest and AirTran desire to utilize an alternative process as set forth in this Agreement for the creation of an Integrated Master Seniority List; and
WHEREAS, SWAPA, ALPA, Southwest and AirTran also wish to provide for the orderly combination of Southwest Pilots and AirTran Pilots under a single Collective Bargaining Agreement (“CBA”) and representation by a single collective bargaining representative within a single transportation system under the Railway Labor Act, as amended, 45 U.S.C. Section 151 et seq. (“RLA”).
8) Tentative agreement reached by both negotiating committees.
9) ALPA MEC does not send initial TA to membership for ratification vote.
10) Second tentative agreement reached by both negotiating committees.
12) Second TA is sent to both unions for membership ratification.
13) Both unions ratify agreement by 83% with more than 93% union participation at both unions.
2) Corporations announce merger/acquisition.
3) Unions informed of proposed merger/acquisition.
4) 4 party talks take place (union/management) to confer about best practices going forward.
5) 4 party talks produce process agreement.
6) Process agreement lays out desired path towards integration.
7) Process agreement states:
WHEREAS, Section 13(b) of Allegheny-Mohawk authorizes the Parties to utilize an agreed-upon alternative method to resolve the seniority integration issues; and
WHEREAS, Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (“SWAPA”), the Air Line Pilots Association (“ALPA”), Southwest and AirTran desire to utilize an alternative process as set forth in this Agreement for the creation of an Integrated Master Seniority List; and
WHEREAS, SWAPA, ALPA, Southwest and AirTran also wish to provide for the orderly combination of Southwest Pilots and AirTran Pilots under a single Collective Bargaining Agreement (“CBA”) and representation by a single collective bargaining representative within a single transportation system under the Railway Labor Act, as amended, 45 U.S.C. Section 151 et seq. (“RLA”).
8) Tentative agreement reached by both negotiating committees.
9) ALPA MEC does not send initial TA to membership for ratification vote.
10) Second tentative agreement reached by both negotiating committees.
12) Second TA is sent to both unions for membership ratification.
13) Both unions ratify agreement by 83% with more than 93% union participation at both unions.
Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
Read the title of the thread. I'm keeping the record straight in response to that. What kind of posts were you expecting under "SWA AAI Final Outcome"?
05-03-2015, 10:03 AM
#40
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Originally Posted by shoelu
Actually I kept the record straight as to exactly what happened. I still haven't heard one word from you refuting any of those assertions.
If SWA were to merge with AA today (not gonna happen) and AA mgmt worked with APA to force SWAPA pilots to stay separate and never have an opportunity to fly other than 737 at the new AA, (or some agreement just short of that) wouldn't the SWAPA pilots feel a little less than embraced by their new mgmt that collaborates with the APA?
That being said. In the infamous quote from Hillary....
"at this point, what difference does it make"
what's done is done and what happens will happen.
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