Far 117
#21
:-)
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Likes: 1
Maybe, prove it.
#23
:-)
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Likes: 1
#24
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Dispatcher / Meteorolgist
Acclimatization - needs to be addressed.
A East Coast SCR pilot can be assigned to a DHD at 12:00 into the SCR, DHD to London remain within the Table-B limits, receive 11:00 rest and fly the next FDP upto the full FDP limit in Table-B/C, while a Line pilot assigned to actually fly the two FDP's used to transport the first FCM, would need to apply the 0:30 penalty on the second FDP ... this is inconsistent and unrealistic ... who is more tired the line pilot on duty for 10:00 or the SCR on duty for 22:00?
Rescheduled FDP start time also needs to be addressed.
Technically, not even in the reg, it is just because of interpretation by the FAA, just write the regulation. The FAA could learn from the EASA FTL regs on this subject.
Disruptive Schedules (Day to Night and visa versa)- was partially in the original NPRM of the reg for SCR. FAA could learn from EASA and CASA on this topic.
117.23 - Cumulative FTL & FDP , again language does not support the FAA's interpretation (which I think is correct), so a loophole can be found and brought to suit in court. They can close it up by changing the language to:
No certificate holder may schedule and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment or continue an assigned flight duty period
A East Coast SCR pilot can be assigned to a DHD at 12:00 into the SCR, DHD to London remain within the Table-B limits, receive 11:00 rest and fly the next FDP upto the full FDP limit in Table-B/C, while a Line pilot assigned to actually fly the two FDP's used to transport the first FCM, would need to apply the 0:30 penalty on the second FDP ... this is inconsistent and unrealistic ... who is more tired the line pilot on duty for 10:00 or the SCR on duty for 22:00?
Rescheduled FDP start time also needs to be addressed.
Technically, not even in the reg, it is just because of interpretation by the FAA, just write the regulation. The FAA could learn from the EASA FTL regs on this subject.
Disruptive Schedules (Day to Night and visa versa)- was partially in the original NPRM of the reg for SCR. FAA could learn from EASA and CASA on this topic.
117.23 - Cumulative FTL & FDP , again language does not support the FAA's interpretation (which I think is correct), so a loophole can be found and brought to suit in court. They can close it up by changing the language to:
No certificate holder may schedule and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment or continue an assigned flight duty period
#25
On Reserve
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 101
Likes: 10
For you to get to 18 hrs you would have to "extend" your FDP+RAP. There is no provision for that.
You can only extend an FDP. The longest FDP in the table is 14 hrs. If your RAP started at 0800, and you were assigned two legs with a showtime of 1000, you then start an FDP that is limited to 14 hours + 2 hr extension. This would mean 1000 show would allow you to go to 0200. However, you can't extend your FDP to a point that your RAP+FDP exceeds total limit of 16 hrs which means you must be blocked in at 0000 (0800 RAP start+ 16 hrs). An extension to your assigned FDP at this point would take you past your FDP+RAP limit.
Let's say instead that your RAP started at 0400. FDP+RAP limit is 14 hrs (Must be blocked in at 1800). You could start an FDP with a show of 5:30, (12 hr FDP limit takes you to 17:30). That means you can extend 30 mins and still be legal.
There are two concurrent time limits being run, your FDP+RAP limit and your FDP limit - they don't combine into one. Better training of this would save a lot of heartache (and ASAPs!)
Oh also like other people have mentioned, if you are fatigued, don't fly. Think of a normal flight. If it was a flight plan requiring fuel, the FDP limit would be your destination, the extension would your alternate. It's all a plan for legality purposes. The fatigue call is like diverting to a better option because things have deteriorated enroute with your destination and listed alternate- it's a real time solution.
You can only extend an FDP. The longest FDP in the table is 14 hrs. If your RAP started at 0800, and you were assigned two legs with a showtime of 1000, you then start an FDP that is limited to 14 hours + 2 hr extension. This would mean 1000 show would allow you to go to 0200. However, you can't extend your FDP to a point that your RAP+FDP exceeds total limit of 16 hrs which means you must be blocked in at 0000 (0800 RAP start+ 16 hrs). An extension to your assigned FDP at this point would take you past your FDP+RAP limit.
Let's say instead that your RAP started at 0400. FDP+RAP limit is 14 hrs (Must be blocked in at 1800). You could start an FDP with a show of 5:30, (12 hr FDP limit takes you to 17:30). That means you can extend 30 mins and still be legal.
There are two concurrent time limits being run, your FDP+RAP limit and your FDP limit - they don't combine into one. Better training of this would save a lot of heartache (and ASAPs!)
Oh also like other people have mentioned, if you are fatigued, don't fly. Think of a normal flight. If it was a flight plan requiring fuel, the FDP limit would be your destination, the extension would your alternate. It's all a plan for legality purposes. The fatigue call is like diverting to a better option because things have deteriorated enroute with your destination and listed alternate- it's a real time solution.
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 1
From: FO
FAR 117(c)(3)
For an unaugmented operation, the total number of hours
a flightcrew member may spend in a flight duty period and a reserve
availability period may not exceed the lesser of the maximum applicable
flight duty period in Table B of this part plus 4 hours, or 16 hours, as
measured from the beginning of the reserve availability period
#28
On Reserve
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 101
Likes: 10
#29
Banned
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 988
Likes: 0
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