Tank21

Honest question from a new hire:

Who is it hurting and what's the problem if you give up your PS and take the JS? Wouldn't you be opening a seat up for a paying customer and you still get to where you need to be? Sounds like a win-win in my book.

John Carr

Ughhhhhh..............

It may not be apparent, but you're hurting the guy that's trying to get home or to work.

I know.......I know.......people, (maybe YOU) will say "just move to base so you don't have to commute".

I would have moved 13 times in a little over 15 years due to displacements, downgrades, furloughs, base closures, what have you.

After that's digested, talk to a few commuters, talk to the guys that have more "time and grade", see what they tell you.

After that, read up on your contract (if you have one), then read up on ALPA JS policy, if you're at an ALPA carrier.

Forgive my candor or direct style. But reference the above. Having the ability to JS and commute to work is a PRIVILEGE that pilots have fought hard to retain. It is VERY near and dear to me, as is JS committee work. ESPECIALLY in the wake of 9/11 when it was suspended, or simply had hurdles and exclusions to overcome.

This conversation has the potential to get REALLY REALLY GOOD.......

rickair7777

Very, very long history with the JS...essentially the pilots have collectively marked off the JS as "our" territory, not management's territory. It's important to hold the line on this long term.

Although management in general does actually have a vested interest in pilot access to the JS: If pilots couldn't readily commute, there wouldn't be nearly as many people willing to do the job if they had move every time they changed domicile. Management helped to restore JS access post-9/11.

"what's the problem if you give up your PS and take the JS? Wouldn't you be opening a seat up for a paying customer and you still get to where you need to be? Sounds like a win-win in my book."

Win for the pax, win for you. That's all that counts right? But what about that other pilot who was commuting and did not have PS? He needed the JS to get to work/home. Of course since he doesn't work for your airline he doesn't matter right? But eventually he'll give you the same consideration that you gave him.

I know, I know a smart feller like you would never be stupid enough to commute to an airline job so commuters are irrelevant. But suppose there were a downturn? What if you got displaced from your base where you've lived for a few years. Uh Oh...now you got kids in school and wifey has a house, job, and friends in the old base. SHE'S not going anywhere...Congrats, you're a commuter! Or divorced, take your pick.

Caveat...all that said I'm still willing to help out in some circumstances as long as the CA is cool with it and circumstances are such that no pilot gets left behind. I'll help out nonrevs. Revenue, well I'm not so inclined to but sometimes there are sob stories (wx canx, rolled over, gonna miss the wedding/funeral).

That's the key...don't leave any pilots behind and clear it with the CA. Also don't commit until the very last minute in case some pilot is rushing to catch the flight.

Tank21

What about if their isn't another person trying to JS?

This is what I was getting at, not trying to screw over another pilot.

If everybody must know - I currently have to double commute to get to my domicile with no plans of moving and I greatly appreciate all carriers allowing me the use of their JS.

rickair7777

Like I said...as long as nobody gets hurt I don't see the problem.

But you MUST discuss with the CA...since this is a technical violation of some union JS policies/agreements the CA has the right to say no if he doesn't like it and I won't second guess a CA on that. Most would be fine with you helping out if you're smart about it.

WesternSkies

Think of it this way it helps,
They didn't sell 53 tickets to a 50 seat airplane on accident. No where in their plan did they consider you showing up saving the day. I don't like it, but I understand the business model.

John Carr

Ok, what if you went through the process of having the agent "unseat" you in the cabin, then put you on the JS. Now it's just prior to go, and a commuting pilot came up? And NOW, hell if the agent will go through the trouble of putting you BACK in the cabin, THEN listing the new guy for the JS, AND kicking off the revenue.

See above.............

"Helping out the company" is something you need to forget.

Sorry, they're NOT helping YOU out. Yeah, we're in an upswing, yeah, you might be fresh off the military's ass and an airline FNG and think the airline "cares" about you.

When the crap hits the fan, they won't even think twice about letting you go, presenting a TA that gets voted on reducing your pay and benefits, whatever. Just ask the 300ish L-CAL pilots that were furloughed in 2008 you now work with, or the 1500-ish L-UAL pilots furloughed in 2008 you now work with. And many of the 1500-ish were TWICE furloughed.

Like I said, forgive my candor and direct style.

Nor selling 170 seats on a 150-ish capacity plane, 190 seats on a 170-ish plane, whatever.

Check Complete

It doesn't happen all the time but, YES, it does happen.

I flew with an FO that had his second leg to a training event cancel. When he called the training dept to say he wasn't going to make it, they said they could not PS him on the other brand because of his domicile and they could not SA him because the flight was full. So he was asked to request the jump seat by the MANAGER of the training dept scheduling to get to his training assignment on time.

Ya, it's happening.

In my case a richard cranium MANAGER from flight ops in SGU took the JS for a meeting he had to be at because the company"forgot" to PS him. (he was at the gate ahead of me and is senior to me)

SkyWest just announced they made major coin last quarter but I have never heard, ever, of them buying space on a plane for a pilot.

My point is that SkyWest doesn't even PS back from training. They should never be asking for the JS on any mainline for their company business.

Justify it all you want, it happens, but it's wrong!