NAI just got approved...
04-15-2016, 04:05 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: CL65 El Capitano
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by David Puddy
NAI is high profile because it is intent on competing on the lucrative transatlantic routes. But what about Neelmen's Azul Airlines down in Brazil (flying A330s from São Paulo to MCO, FLL and JFK I believe) or TACA from Latin America or the various Chinese airlines flying 777s or 787s to the States? They all pay their local pilots SQUAT!!!!! Super low pay relative to US Legacy pilots....
And yet NAI is the one highlighted constantly because it threatens to lower average airfares on lucrative routes to/from Europe... I bet that NAI will have to eventually raise pay in order to attract more pilots if their growth continues - but nobody should expect US Legacy pay levels (ie $300K for a Delta 767/777/A330 Captain). I think Virgin Atlantic 787/744/A330 Captains make barely half that amount and their taxes are 50-60%.
I am not defending them, but NAI gets all the bad press because it's model appears to be working with efficient Dreamliners and it is a big threat to entrenched U.S. and European legacies... It is easy to forget that point. Relative to other foreign airlines serving the U.S. like Azul or Avianca, NAI probably pays its pilots better. It's all RELATIVE....Why no yelling at Azul's very low A330 rates?????
And yet NAI is the one highlighted constantly because it threatens to lower average airfares on lucrative routes to/from Europe... I bet that NAI will have to eventually raise pay in order to attract more pilots if their growth continues - but nobody should expect US Legacy pay levels (ie $300K for a Delta 767/777/A330 Captain). I think Virgin Atlantic 787/744/A330 Captains make barely half that amount and their taxes are 50-60%.
I am not defending them, but NAI gets all the bad press because it's model appears to be working with efficient Dreamliners and it is a big threat to entrenched U.S. and European legacies... It is easy to forget that point. Relative to other foreign airlines serving the U.S. like Azul or Avianca, NAI probably pays its pilots better. It's all RELATIVE....Why no yelling at Azul's very low A330 rates?????
04-15-2016, 04:13 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 859
Originally Posted by Poopchute701
Because Azul isn't trying to circumnavigate established labor laws with a flag of convience tactic...
1. Basing the company in a low tax country with dollars from a second location.
--Imagine if DAL tool their money and started an airline in Mexico.
2. Now DAL staff those planes with Latvian pilots who make 12k a year.
3. The new Latvianca flies into LAX, JFK, LHR, CDG etc.
4. We all lose our jobs.
Imagine if the REVERSE happens.
- Korean Air starts a US airline with Chinese pilots!
04-15-2016, 04:23 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Left
Posts: 1,807
Originally Posted by Poopchute701
Because Azul isn't trying to circumnavigate established labor laws with a flag of convience tactic...
If NAI wants to serve HPN or PVD from LGW or DUB with an uncomfortable 737-800Max why should that bother you since the U.S. legacies have all of the gates at the major hubs? NAI targets a different demographic than the U.S. legacies - I doubt many high yield business travelers will pick NAI. Again, not fully defending NAI but they do have what seems like a successful model and it is therefore seen as a big threat. The regulators probably surmised that the number of consumers who could benefit from lower average airfares living in the U.S. and in Europe far exceeds the number of airline employees concerned about their wages.
04-15-2016, 04:38 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: CL65 El Capitano
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by David Puddy
That is a convenient argument. Are you a socialist or do you believe in Capitalism? If you are a Socialist then you should also believe that gates should be shared by all at major airports like JFK and ORD. But they aren't.
If NAI wants to serve HPN or PVD from LGW or DUB with an uncomfortable 737-800Max why should that bother you since the U.S. legacies have all of the gates at the major hubs? NAI targets a different demographic than the U.S. legacies - I doubt many high yield business travelers will pick NAI. Again, not fully defending NAI but they do have what seems like a successful model and it is therefore seen as a big threat. The regulators probably surmised that the number of consumers who could benefit from lower average airfares living in the U.S. and in Europe far exceeds the number of airline employees concerned about their wages.
If NAI wants to serve HPN or PVD from LGW or DUB with an uncomfortable 737-800Max why should that bother you since the U.S. legacies have all of the gates at the major hubs? NAI targets a different demographic than the U.S. legacies - I doubt many high yield business travelers will pick NAI. Again, not fully defending NAI but they do have what seems like a successful model and it is therefore seen as a big threat. The regulators probably surmised that the number of consumers who could benefit from lower average airfares living in the U.S. and in Europe far exceeds the number of airline employees concerned about their wages.
2. I'm guessing you support the ME3 as well because they have a successful model (albeit not a fair one). But hey, the benefit of shelling out money to those countries for Joe traveler probably outweighs our jobs right?
Sorry but this is APC. Of course I want to defend my profession and do not support NAI. Don't know where you are trying to go with this discourse...The whole point is competiton with NAI is fine. Their flag of convience tactics are not
04-15-2016, 04:54 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Left
Posts: 1,807
Originally Posted by Poopchute701
1. Not a socialist at all. Don't know what that has to do with this.
2. I'm guessing you support the ME3 as well because they have a successful model (albeit not a fair one). But hey, the benefit of shelling out money to those countries for Joe traveler probably outweighs our jobs right? Sorry but this is APC. Of course I want to defend my profession and do not support NAI. Don't know where you are trying to go with this discourse...The whole point is competiton with NAI is fine. Their flag of convience tactics are not
2. I'm guessing you support the ME3 as well because they have a successful model (albeit not a fair one). But hey, the benefit of shelling out money to those countries for Joe traveler probably outweighs our jobs right?
Sorry but this is APC. Of course I want to defend my profession and do not support NAI. Don't know where you are trying to go with this discourse...The whole point is competiton with NAI is fine. Their flag of convience tactics are notI am very hopeful that NAI sees the light and increases crew wages to more competitive levels - especially since they will need to attract more pilots to grow if they are legally allowed to expand.
I just think we forget that most non US/Euro legacy pilots are waaaaay underpaid on a relative basis and nobody seems to care until NAI threatens the more lucrative routes. Again, Virgin Atlantic pilots are not paid well to fly 787/744/A330s relative to their Delta peers. Now that it is more established, let's hope for more competitive wages for NAI 737 and 787 pilots...
04-15-2016, 05:04 PM
#26
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Azul is a Brazillian company, based in Brazil, employing Brazillian pilots.
NAI is a Norweigan company, based in Ireland, employing whatever pilots they can con into working for their indentured servitude wages.
See the difference?
NAI is a Norweigan company, based in Ireland, employing whatever pilots they can con into working for their indentured servitude wages.
See the difference?
04-15-2016, 05:12 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
Posts: 1,537
Originally Posted by surfnski
W t f packrat?
Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob
Azul is a Brazillian company, based in Brazil, employing Brazillian pilots.
NAI is a Norweigan company, based in Ireland, employing whatever pilots they can con into working for their indentured servitude wages.
See the difference?
NAI is a Norweigan company, based in Ireland, employing whatever pilots they can con into working for their indentured servitude wages.
See the difference?
04-15-2016, 05:13 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Left
Posts: 1,807
Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob
Azul is a Brazillian company, based in Brazil, employing Brazillian pilots.
NAI is a Norweigan company, based in Ireland, employing whatever pilots they can con into working for their indentured servitude wages.
See the difference?
NAI is a Norweigan company, based in Ireland, employing whatever pilots they can con into working for their indentured servitude wages.
See the difference?
Should we shut them out too since they employ Polish pilots and their cheap fares are scary to the legacies too?
04-15-2016, 05:26 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: CL65 El Capitano
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by David Puddy
WOW Airlines (advised by Ben Baldanza - former Spirit CEO) is a new and fast growing LCC based in Iceland that is now using A321s and soon A330s to connect Europe to the U.S. through Reykjavik. I have seen the A321s at BWI and A330s will soon serve both LAX and SFO. Something like 95% of their pilots are Polish and Eastern European because there aren't enough Icelandic pilots to fly the airplanes.
Should we shut them out too since they employ Polish pilots and their cheap fares are scary to the legacies too?
Should we shut them out too since they employ Polish pilots and their cheap fares are scary to the legacies too?
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