Even as a Delta pilot I recognize that future retirement should play into how the list is constructed. However if that factor is used then it should be used for all the pilots on the lists today. That hurts the junior NWA pilots down the road. In addition if 50% of the NWA list is over 50 which I suspect is correct then that is about 2650 pilots. Delta has 2000 pilots over 50 so the retirement will not have the differential some believe.

2000 is a big number but that is still less than 1/3 or your pilot group? You would still need another 1500 to retire to get to 50%.

Yes it has. Because age is a major determinant of retirement. ;)

And retirements are one of the many things used by the arbitrators to determine what they feel is the long term fairness of any SLI formulation.

Carl

It most certainly is and has been - look at the SLI treatment of EEOC hires at NWA and elsewhere.

Welcome back Carl,---my now official fellow Delta pilot. I underline retirements....one of..many things because that is undoubtedly true. NW's proposal, though, treats retirement as if it were the only thing the arbitrators should consider. I believe there are a few concepts considered by arbitrators that "trump" any "future expectations" formulation...the most obvious priority concept being summed up as: "preserving current seniority". Your proposal doesn't even come close... the fences attempt to preserve DL's current seniority "rights" for 10 yrs. (and they don't come close, especially as evidenced on the 767ER/767-300/757 fence, and the allocations for future 777 deliveries) Now "seniority" and "seniority rights" are way different, specifically, when it comes to making predictions, which, as we all know, is notoriously difficult..(especially about the future.;)) A relative list will preserve current seniority for both groups, and within that framework we can find some way to address retirement attrition at NW. To attempt to do air-tight DOH fences covering every contingency of the future invites constant conflict between the two groups, on a scale that would make your red/green book problems pale in comparison. The airline will change dramatically in the future and we already have indications of this in the short-term. If your retirements are so concrete and quantifiable, we should be able to deal with them in a concrete and quantifiable manner, and not subject 98% of the DL pilots to the jeopardy and "promises" of the future that your proposal entails.

Sorry tsquare. Didn't mean to steal your quote, but amazangly, carl can't/won't answer the question. hmmmmmm..................

Then why aren't we ordered by age?

Retirements might be considered by arbitrators... they may very will be, but hopefully not that mythical 62.4 years your lawyer came up with. Unless you are willing to sign your retirement paperwork right now stating that you are gone in another 12 years... 62.4 is meaningless. 65 is the only number that is concrete and is (hopefully) considered.

Must be nice to be you though... 13 more years as a whale captain... if they are around that long. But damn... you might have to stoop to a 777. I'm guessing your career has sucked so far hasn't it?

But anyway... all bickering aside... welcome aboard

[quote=wiggy;488728]Welcome back Carl,---my now official fellow Delta pilot.

I second that - Welcome aboard Carl!


when it comes to making predictions, which, as we all know, is notoriously difficult..(especially about the future.;))

Do I detect a Yogi Berra paraphrase?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Scoop

[quote=Scoop;488780]Ahhhh....Yogi. DAL and NWA came to a fork in the road.......and they took it!

OK, here's the way I think it will go. Delta pilots have earned their seniority seats, pay and progression, NWA pilots the same. That will create a list more akin to the Delta proposal due to the top heavy NWA list. NWA pilots will dominate the top of the seniority list in positions that are already the end of their progression, then Delta widwbody Captains that may or may not be at the end of progression. A free for all in the narrow body playing field, and the junior most guys at both are not going to like it. I don't think economy of scale plays well with Robert's Award type fences. Bottom line, if you are in the seat you desire, you'll be moderately PO'd. If you aren't you'll be REALLY PO'd. To the respective MEC's, Get on with it!