Some did retire yesterday
11-03-2008, 10:46 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
Super,
In the following chart I added 5 years to the NW retirements in your post to compare apples to apples. These are age 65 retirements on from both Co.'s:
NW DL
2013 70 60
2014 96 75
2015 167 89
2016 183 136
2017 199 157
2018 230 218
2019 256 272
2020 285 348
2021 295 478
2022 343 567
2023 314 549
2024 283 544
2025 182 472
2026 180 422
2027 152 318
2028 122 311
In years 29 and 30 we have 654 retirements alone and hundreds in the years after.
In essence, based on age 65, you have a total of 204 retirements more than us thru 2018 and DL's retirements more than takecare of that by 2021, 3 years later.
The numbers for DL were taken off the Company website under pilot resources and scheduling.
IMO, there just is not that big a difference in the short term and way to your advantage in the medium to long term. I know, I know, you all think many will retire at 60 and that my be true, but the only truly known date is at age 65.
Fire Away!!!!!!!
Denny
In the following chart I added 5 years to the NW retirements in your post to compare apples to apples. These are age 65 retirements on from both Co.'s:
NW DL
2013 70 60
2014 96 75
2015 167 89
2016 183 136
2017 199 157
2018 230 218
2019 256 272
2020 285 348
2021 295 478
2022 343 567
2023 314 549
2024 283 544
2025 182 472
2026 180 422
2027 152 318
2028 122 311
In years 29 and 30 we have 654 retirements alone and hundreds in the years after.
In essence, based on age 65, you have a total of 204 retirements more than us thru 2018 and DL's retirements more than takecare of that by 2021, 3 years later.
The numbers for DL were taken off the Company website under pilot resources and scheduling.
IMO, there just is not that big a difference in the short term and way to your advantage in the medium to long term. I know, I know, you all think many will retire at 60 and that my be true, but the only truly known date is at age 65.
Fire Away!!!!!!!
Denny
11-03-2008, 11:16 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Eric,
The way I calculate it is NW pilot group is 71% the size of DL. So I think 29% would be a better figure. That's using 5000 pilots for NW and 7000 for DL. That's about as much math in public I want to do!!
I think you can look at scheduled age 65 retirements and see that DL's far surpass 29% starting in 2021 and continue on for many, many years (2030 and way beyond that too). 2029 to 2035 we retire approx. 1200 more.
Denny
The way I calculate it is NW pilot group is 71% the size of DL. So I think 29% would be a better figure. That's using 5000 pilots for NW and 7000 for DL. That's about as much math in public I want to do!!
I think you can look at scheduled age 65 retirements and see that DL's far surpass 29% starting in 2021 and continue on for many, many years (2030 and way beyond that too). 2029 to 2035 we retire approx. 1200 more.
Denny
11-03-2008, 12:23 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
I think the ultimate problem with the dynamic list is that we will always be tied to the former pilot group...think unity. I think it would make it harder to gauge QOL when the list is always changing. Its hard enough with the airline as fluid as it is these days unless you sit on the top of the list.
Any fair dynamic list would have to continue till everyone on the combined list today retires. There is nothing fair about only NW getting credit for their guys over a 5 to 10 year period, when Delta has many more coming beyond this time frame (refer to previous retirement post numbers above). No hard end date to the dynamic list is fair short of the retirement date of our (NW-DL) most junior pilot.
Dawgs
Any fair dynamic list would have to continue till everyone on the combined list today retires. There is nothing fair about only NW getting credit for their guys over a 5 to 10 year period, when Delta has many more coming beyond this time frame (refer to previous retirement post numbers above). No hard end date to the dynamic list is fair short of the retirement date of our (NW-DL) most junior pilot.
Dawgs
11-03-2008, 12:49 PM
#35
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by DAWGS
I think the ultimate problem with the dynamic list is that we will always be tied to the former pilot group...think unity. I think it would make it harder to gauge QOL when the list is always changing. Its hard enough with the airline as fluid as it is these days unless you sit on the top of the list.
Any fair dynamic list would have to continue till everyone on the combined list today retires. There is nothing fair about only NW getting credit for their guys over a 5 to 10 year period, when Delta has many more coming beyond this time frame (refer to previous retirement post numbers above). No hard end date to the dynamic list is fair short of the retirement date of our (NW-DL) most junior pilot.
Dawgs
Any fair dynamic list would have to continue till everyone on the combined list today retires. There is nothing fair about only NW getting credit for their guys over a 5 to 10 year period, when Delta has many more coming beyond this time frame (refer to previous retirement post numbers above). No hard end date to the dynamic list is fair short of the retirement date of our (NW-DL) most junior pilot.
Dawgs
New challenge:
Negotiations will never happen unless DAL comes off the equipment ratio. Let us know when YOU come up with a proposal. Til then, the arbitration clock ticks.
Carl
11-03-2008, 02:27 PM
#36
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by DAWGS
I think the ultimate problem with the dynamic list is that we will always be tied to the former pilot group...think unity. I think it would make it harder to gauge QOL when the list is always changing. Its hard enough with the airline as fluid as it is these days unless you sit on the top of the list.
Any fair dynamic list would have to continue till everyone on the combined list today retires. There is nothing fair about only NW getting credit for their guys over a 5 to 10 year period, when Delta has many more coming beyond this time frame (refer to previous retirement post numbers above). No hard end date to the dynamic list is fair short of the retirement date of our (NW-DL) most junior pilot.
Dawgs
Any fair dynamic list would have to continue till everyone on the combined list today retires. There is nothing fair about only NW getting credit for their guys over a 5 to 10 year period, when Delta has many more coming beyond this time frame (refer to previous retirement post numbers above). No hard end date to the dynamic list is fair short of the retirement date of our (NW-DL) most junior pilot.
Dawgs
Are you a Georgia Bulldogs fan? I heard that Michael Vick is applying as a coach since he knows how to make dogs fight
What the hell happened last weekend? Steve
I'm still a fan of Phil, but maybe it's time to move on. GO VOLS!
11-03-2008, 02:33 PM
#37
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by DAWGS
I think the ultimate problem with the dynamic list is that we will always be tied to the former pilot group...think unity. I think it would make it harder to gauge QOL when the list is always changing. Its hard enough with the airline as fluid as it is these days unless you sit on the top of the list.
Any fair dynamic list would have to continue till everyone on the combined list today retires. There is nothing fair about only NW getting credit for their guys over a 5 to 10 year period, when Delta has many more coming beyond this time frame (refer to previous retirement post numbers above). No hard end date to the dynamic list is fair short of the retirement date of our (NW-DL) most junior pilot.
Dawgs
Any fair dynamic list would have to continue till everyone on the combined list today retires. There is nothing fair about only NW getting credit for their guys over a 5 to 10 year period, when Delta has many more coming beyond this time frame (refer to previous retirement post numbers above). No hard end date to the dynamic list is fair short of the retirement date of our (NW-DL) most junior pilot.
Dawgs
With that said I am officially done with these arguments. We are now on the same team and the sooner we start acting like it the sooner we can join up and kick some A.
11-03-2008, 03:24 PM
#38
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Mil Leave from NWA...Now DAL, IP in KC-135R
Posts: 50
Here's an SLI suggestion....NWA had about 5k pilots...DAL had about 7k. That's a ratio of roughly 1 to 1.4. Start at the top of the list, and for every NWA guy, stick in 1.4 DAL guys. Start with an NWA guy or a DAL guy...I don't give a crap who it is, but I'm sure many of you will find a reason to whine about who's at the top. Screw fences, screw DOH, screw all this crap everyone is throwing around about what they bring to the table and what their future expectations are. We're all one big happy family now, and the sooner all of the pilots on both sides quit acting like whiny little b!tche$, maybe we'll actually have something that is functional, if not somewhat fair. My airline is going to cease to exist, and yours is going to cease to exist as you know it....get over it. Yeah, maybe I'll be junior to guys hired at Delta a year ago. Yes, maybe some very junior Delta guys won't be able to hold the 767 out of JFK anymore. Life is a big sh!t sandwich and we're all going to have to take a bite, so how about we knock off b!tching at each other and quit clinging to moronic, unrealistic expectations of what we are "owed".
11-03-2008, 07:15 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
Originally Posted by MJB68
Here's an SLI suggestion....NWA had about 5k pilots...DAL had about 7k. That's a ratio of roughly 1 to 1.4. Start at the top of the list, and for every NWA guy, stick in 1.4 DAL guys. Start with an NWA guy or a DAL guy...I don't give a crap who it is, but I'm sure many of you will find a reason to whine about who's at the top. Screw fences, screw DOH, screw all this crap everyone is throwing around about what they bring to the table and what their future expectations are. We're all one big happy family now, and the sooner all of the pilots on both sides quit acting like whiny little b!tche$, maybe we'll actually have something that is functional, if not somewhat fair. My airline is going to cease to exist, and yours is going to cease to exist as you know it....get over it. Yeah, maybe I'll be junior to guys hired at Delta a year ago. Yes, maybe some very junior Delta guys won't be able to hold the 767 out of JFK anymore. Life is a big sh!t sandwich and we're all going to have to take a bite, so how about we knock off b!tching at each other and quit clinging to moronic, unrealistic expectations of what we are "owed".
11-03-2008, 07:52 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
MJB68,
AMEN brother!!!!!
Super,
I showin' unity with you.........I'm done too!!!!! As has been said many times in the past, we can't do anything about it any way and all this seems to be doing is building future animosity. I don't think any of us want that. Whatever is decided, either by negotiation or arbitration, is what it will be, will be.....Que cera, cera!!!!
Denny
AMEN brother!!!!!
Super,
I showin' unity with you.........I'm done too!!!!!
As has been said many times in the past, we can't do anything about it any way and all this seems to be doing is building future animosity. I don't think any of us want that. Whatever is decided, either by negotiation or arbitration, is what it will be, will be.....Que cera, cera!!!!Denny
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
