I have heard a few former Red book guys say DOH with fences was a fair way to go, but if any former green book guys thinks so I have not heard them say it. I know a few of you NW guys have identiifed yourself as former Red Book, but who among the usual forum guys is a former green book and what do you guys think? You guys didn't "fence" the green book guys off this forum - or did you?
It does not seem fair that some that a guy with 15 years in Republic at the time of the NW merger could be held off equipment that was bid on by a guy who was a new hire at NW during the merger.


Scoop

 

Scoop,

Well, it is not exactly like that. The senior Green book guys actually faired very well. Remember the argument before Roberts(named after the arbitraitor who awarded it.) from the red side was what they brought to the table which at the time was predominantly widebody flying with 727 being their smallest airplane. Republic brought 9s/727/ and 6 757 (easy number to remember as that was how the red book guys taught apu egt limitation on the 747) Sorry, I digress. Anyway, the republic guys argued DOH and didn't want ratios and used the domestic feed they brought as the basis for their argument. Roberts looked at both sides and said, ok I give both sides what they want. To the green book guys they got their date of hire and to the red book guys they got their access to the widebody flying. The twenty year fence was long and costly and I think that is why RA, seeing it firsthand, isn't desirous for us to have fences on the new SLI.

I hope, scoop, that both sides can meet in the middle and we don't have two decades of bickering/resentment or disharmony.

 

I think most of the green-book guys are too old for this "new-fangled internets thingy"

 

I spoke with one green book pilot. He was very concerned about fences and did not want them. He said the fences had screwed him for 20 years. He was willing to take a ratio without fences since it would still get him a widebody international seat to retire off instead of his current narrow body domestic seat. He said a 10 year fence would keep him where he is until he retires because of what the red book pilots did to him. Please no comments on his views of the last merger. Just reporting what he feels about this one.

 

Am I reading this right that he can't get a widebody at NWA and the only way he could get one is at Delta? That's why he doesn't want a fence.

 

His logic is flawed unless he is assuming that there will be no base closures to redeploy equipment to new bases and routes. At a minimum I expect the SEA A330 base to close and probably MSP A330. Not sure about the 747-400 moving, but if it does, the new bid will be mostly Green Book guys.

 

Opus,
Good info - thanks. I am torn about the whole fence thing. I guess coming up with a fair solution without fences would be ideal, easier said then done. I understand NW guys wanting fences to protect retirements but if thats the case, to be fair, the fences should last until all pre-merger pilots are retired, not exactly a great solution. Or maybe we can rent some time on a Cray Supercomputer and it can calculate some sort of dynamic seniority list that can factor everything and spit out a list - not too hopeful on this one either.
Oh well if all else fails go with the Newman solution - "Cut the bike in half."

Scoop

 

The fences at NWA are over and have been for a couple years. They can bid whatever they want, especially with all the widebody CA awards that are being awarded.fwiw

 

Scoop,

I don't think we are going to see fences awarded. I think RA has stated that he would prefer an integrated list sans fences but we'll see. I suggested to our negotiators we go 1:1 (which would help the senior DAL guys) and then towards the bottom go 7:5 with some dynamics.

I know guys on both sides (or at least as emoted on this web board) are holding on to each side position but I do hope there is middle ground that can be found and we won't be living in a resentful environment for the forseeable future.

On another note, I know a lot our guys that come from boeing curse the airbus so I wonder how Dal guys are going to want to bid the 330?

 

There has been very limited movement to the widebodies since the fence came down. There are a huge number of Green book pilots still on the narrow bodies. With the change from 2 Captains on over 12 flights to 1 Captain it hurt movement even more.