Well on that we can agree!

This is true, and you would have a great point, IF this SLI only lasted ten years. What about between years 10-20? The vast majority of the retirees will be current DAL guys. We all get to move up again.

I'm not saying that. There have no doubt been unrealistic proposals on both sides. I don't think that strict DOH is fair. The fact is that even with the whale and A330 (a great airplane, and you will enjoy where it is going to fly) we bring a lot more widebody aircraft to the mix. (I also don't think that stapling the bottom 400 NWA guys is fair either, but I digress).

Oh hell, I give up. We've all read this a million times and our opinions mean little. All I know is that DAL has merged with or acquired C&S in the 50s/60s, Northeast in the 70s, Western in the 80s, and some of Pan Am in the 90s. Not ONCE did the SLI go to an arbitrator, and I do believe that all the pilots in the prior airlines all did rather well in their career. That is what I and most other DAL guys want for all of us--NWA guys included!

Good luck to us all. Hopefully a year from now this will all be a dull memory clouded by one too many beers.

 

About the same, from what I've seen. But, who cares I'll be a greeter at WalMar by then


Agree, the only thing I can think of is our size. Those guys weren't 70% Delta's size.

Dead on my friend..........beers are on the old guy!

Ferd

 

Ok. I'm finishing up the transcripts from yesterday. I understand our dynamic list proposal, but what did you guys (DAL) propose? Some kind of pull out of or most senior pilots? 100, 173?

 

We did not propose that. It was done at the Arbitrators request.

 

The pull out is a method of accounting for expected attrition in a static list. It is a tool for manipulating the list and was requested by the arbitrators/mediators. (hint, hint)
The DAL guys did not propose this method. All they did was supply the software and computer model to the arbitrators.
Both sides are still officially sticking with their original proposals but you can see from the transcripts that in the mediated (non-binding) sessions they had been working on a static status and category list with these "pull outs" being used to account for attrition.
The devil is in the details regarding how many people get pulled out and reinserted. DAL obviously wants a low number and NWA wants a high number.
Considering who the "mediators" are, I think we can see the outline of our list taking shape.
The fight is going to be over which airplanes belong in which category (the whole 76ER vs A330 fight) and how many "pull-outs" are the proper number to account for the NWA attrition.

 

According to the testimony no SLI has ever used attrition as an equity when ordering a list. If the NWA pilots pull that off, it is history in the making.

As Check Essential writes, Bloch seems proud of the idea and he takes credit for the tool (which was created by Delta's analysts at his request).

It is most unusual for an "impartial" Arbitrator to take such an activist position during a hearing. Bloch acts like this is a Mediation proceeding. It is most unusual to say the least.

 

Ya know. Those transcripts make me dizzy. After reading all of them, I find it safe to say I think both sides should feel motivated to come up with a negotiated list. Chairman Bloch and the committee are the mediators, so I think they did a good job in indicating where they wanted movement from the two sides. I think it would be a good idea for everyone to read the transcripts, especially the ones from 11/17. Fascinating stuff. Good luck to us all. May we all be equally upset.

 

One's perspective surely makes for an interesting dialogue doesn't it?

 

A "fair" list could well produce that result. The arguments will not end, but shift to the issue of who has the better reasons for being upset.

 

Ferd,

Although the demographics do certainly impact the list negatively for pre NWA guys, not everything can or should be accounted for in an SLI. I know this sounds selfishly slanted towards us, but when you got hired at your airline and how OLD you were when hired are some of those "career determiners" that one can't control. Where you sit on your list percentage wise is the most important factor, imo, to figuring out an SLI. You would essentially be punishing pre Delta guys for being younger than "same % pre NWA guys who happen to be older. Now I know the ramifications can be HUGE for pre NWA guys but how do you justify this "age discrimination" of younger pre Delta guys. Clearly the major hurdle in any static, ratio list, which they seem to be leaning towards.

Cog