US Airways Appeal
06-06-2010, 08:03 PM
#101
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
.....they are dragging down the entire industry that is built on pattern bargaining. How are we supposed to get a big raise when our copilots make as much or more than their captains?
We don't look that hot when we are compared to the pilot payrates at Alaska, Jet Blue, Air Tran, or even Spirit either.
If the company tells us that they can't give us a payraise because we can't compete with US Airways and their pilot cost structure, it's time for our negotiators to walk out of the room....
06-07-2010, 02:13 AM
#102
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Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 392
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Oh, I can certainly imagine a ruling that USAPA could live with. DOH. Perhaps one inch to the left of that. But can you honestly imagine a world in which both East and West reach a mutually agreeable list? I certainly can't.
The truth is starting to seep out about their DOH stance. That was not their stance in the end. Whether or not they reach a list is not our place to judge.
06-07-2010, 02:19 AM
#103
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Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 392
Originally Posted by Splash
Where is the straight-up challenge to that? Has USAPA filed a lawsuit claiming Nic didn't have the authority to merge the lists the way he did?
The question was, Can you envision USAPA being trusted in a future merger where the seniority list is constructed by binding arbitration?
"Trust" is the question. Would YOU trust them if your MEC entered into an agreement with them to submit a list to binding arbitration?
The question was, Can you envision USAPA being trusted in a future merger where the seniority list is constructed by binding arbitration?
"Trust" is the question. Would YOU trust them if your MEC entered into an agreement with them to submit a list to binding arbitration?
Who said anything about lawsuits? The USAir pilots took another road. A court agreed for now that they could without penalty.
The answer to question 2 is yes, still. Rephrasing the question will not change the answer.
06-07-2010, 02:43 AM
#104
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Originally Posted by all4114all
By the way are you aware of any other income we get from the company, I think not.
Originally Posted by all4114all
By the way I love it when you send the girls working in the back of your planes to tell us there is no room on your van. It never works, but you still try.
06-07-2010, 06:24 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I didn't say that. I said you don't want to fight for anything that management doesn't also want.
Carl
Carl
Carl's pay rate under DAL Contract : $208
Carl's Delta Stock in his 401K under NWA Contract : $0.00
Carl's Delta Stock in his 401K under DAL Contract : $60,000+
Number of Carl 747 Captains under NWA Contract : 140
Number of Carl 747 Captains under DAL Contract : 200
After spending 20 years screwing the Green Book guys, I can see how you would sympathize with a union that is launching a hostile assault on a minority group of their own members. You consider that it is a legitimate union objective for one group of pilots to hammer down another group. Everyone else in the world sees it for what it really is. I can understand then how you would lose sight of what a union is really supposed to fight for, pay, work rules, retirement. I guess that is why you haven't noticed what happened when you came to the weak kneed Delta contract. Fight on, Carl.
06-07-2010, 06:47 AM
#106
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by newKnow
Hey. Let's make sure we use the same argument against ourselves when we bring Southwest, UPS, and Fed Ex into the equation.
We don't look that hot when we are compared to the pilot payrates at Alaska, Jet Blue, Air Tran, or even Spirit either.
If the company tells us that they can't give us a payraise because we can't compete with US Airways and their pilot cost structure, it's time for our negotiators to walk out of the room....
We don't look that hot when we are compared to the pilot payrates at Alaska, Jet Blue, Air Tran, or even Spirit either.
If the company tells us that they can't give us a payraise because we can't compete with US Airways and their pilot cost structure, it's time for our negotiators to walk out of the room....
Carl
06-07-2010, 07:04 AM
#107
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Carl's pay rate under NWA Contract : $179
Carl's pay rate under DAL Contract : $208
Carl's Delta Stock in his 401K under NWA Contract : $0.00
Carl's Delta Stock in his 401K under DAL Contract : $60,000+
Number of Carl 747 Captains under NWA Contract : 140
Number of Carl 747 Captains under DAL Contract : 200
Carl's pay rate under DAL Contract : $208
Carl's Delta Stock in his 401K under NWA Contract : $0.00
Carl's Delta Stock in his 401K under DAL Contract : $60,000+
Number of Carl 747 Captains under NWA Contract : 140
Number of Carl 747 Captains under DAL Contract : 200
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
After spending 20 years screwing the Green Book guys,
Carl
06-07-2010, 08:37 AM
#108
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
All due to the pending merger with NWA. But as always, you fail to post the following: Even with these RATE increases, total PAY for fNWA pilots is LESS because of fDAL WEAK KNEED work rules such as 70 hour guarantees, etc. Your pay is more today and I'm happy for you, but my pay is less. I'm sure management told you that was all they could afford to do for you though.
You are completely ignorant of the facts. 75% of all former Republic Pilots (green book) retired as 747 or DC-10 Captains even though they did not bring one of these airplanes to the merger. And the arbitrator awarded them straight Date of Hire even though it pushed the average NWA pilots down 30% or more down from their previous position. But we screwed them according to you? NWA position was a ratio, REP position was Date of Hire. The arbitrator awarded Date of Hire and not only did they get screwed - but NWA pilots are the ones that screwed them? Crack kills dude.
Carl
You are completely ignorant of the facts. 75% of all former Republic Pilots (green book) retired as 747 or DC-10 Captains even though they did not bring one of these airplanes to the merger. And the arbitrator awarded them straight Date of Hire even though it pushed the average NWA pilots down 30% or more down from their previous position. But we screwed them according to you? NWA position was a ratio, REP position was Date of Hire. The arbitrator awarded Date of Hire and not only did they get screwed - but NWA pilots are the ones that screwed them? Crack kills dude.
Carl
If our work rules are so weak kneed, then why are there 60 more 747 captains now than under your contract? If our work rules were worse, wouldn't that make less captains instead of more? Wouldn't the bottom reserve pilot under your contract now have 60 pilots beneath him and be a line holder instead of reserve? Would that be a pay cut too? Like I said Carl, you make this way too easy.
After 20 years of quota protections, I get that the Red Book guys are seeing their worlds fall apart. Green Book guys can now bid their seniority and they are now line holders and not permanent reserve. Welcome to the real world.
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