Justdoinmyjob

Me thinks someone needs to heed their own advice.......

brakechatter

It's a lot different than calling in sick when well. It's a lot different that acting in a fraudulent manner by faking long term disability. There's a big difference between blatant violation of established rules or law, and utilizing all available means--with legal affirmation of your actions. we do it daily in the cockpit with gray areas. Now you are trying to vilify the USAir east pilots for the same maneuver. Sorry, that dog doesn't hunt.

Meanwhile, other MECs, other airlines, and fellow (back then) ALPA members have been plotting, planning, and outright hoping for the demise of USAir for their own gain--probably yourself included. What kind of integrity is that? Time and time again, these hopefuls have been wrong--sometimes with a shake of their head, sometimes with the loss of their pension, sometimes desperately fighting off a hostile takeover. To their detriment, they have underestimated the resolve of this group. To the contrary, they could also take a lesson of what a dedicated, resolved, and unified pilot group can accomplish. Yet you choose to vilify. So be it.

The only misstep I have seen from the USAir pilots is that they put themselves in this position in the first place--via voting ALPA off of the property. But it worked out for now. All they really had to do was continue voting JCBAs down over and over again, absolutely acceptable per ALPA policy. Sooner or later, all parties would have eventually seen the nic for what it is--wwwaaaayyyy off of the reservation. All of this legal wrangling could have been completely off of the table. Would the same naysayers then question the integrity of acting within the bounds of ALPA merger policy? Probably. It's the nature of pilots, and their up to the minute exemplification of their A-type personalities, to point the finger and judge without the benefit of walking in the target's shoes. Not my style.

I can only hope that my pilot group can someday become so united, can someday leave no legal stone unturned in our quest for restoration, can somehow get the picture across to our company, the government, and the public that this profession is indeed worth and and all battles.

Sorry pineapple, sorry alfa, I don't agree with you.

newKnow

A lot of you guys are getting wound up and emotional about this East vs. West seniority issue. Highly charged words mean nothing in the courtroom unless you can attach them to law . As with most things, there is a big difference between what is fair and what is legal.

Sure, it's only fair that the East follow the arbitrators award and move on with their careers. They did agree to binding arbitration.

But, legally, the USAPA can dispute, fight, ignore, stall, break a contract, and yes, they can choose not follow that same binding arbitration. As an entity, they can make the choice to break some types of agreements, then pay damages, if ordered to do so. Or, at least they can try to.

The real question is, how do the courts view arbitration agreements for seniority lists?

I just skimmed the decision and what is telling is that the majority says that USAPA can pursue a CBA with US Airways that does not include the Nicolau award.

If it is as it seems, and they are looking for the final product of the CBA to be the pivot point on judging DFR issues and how to asses damages, it will take years.

IMO, short of a Supreme Court reversal. or a removal of USAPA, this decision effectively destroys any chance the Nicolau award will ever get implemented and/or the two sides ever flying together.

All I can say is, good luck.

I think it was you Cactus who said you guys have some kind of fast track with the court, what does that mean and how does that help? What's your take on the decision?



New K Now

alfaromeo

You are a funny man Carl, classless, but funny nonetheless. You are just still mad that your Date of Hire quest was rejected by the panel. In fact you are probably still mad that you were dead wrong about just about everything else associated with this merger.

The East pilots aren't fighting against the "man" they are fighting against their fellow pilots. Perhaps you have respect for that, I have none. Instead of fighting against management, they are handing management tacit approval for the worst contract in the industry. While they try to steal away the rights of the West pilots they are dragging down the entire industry that is built on pattern bargaining. How are we supposed to get a big raise when our copilots make as much or more than their captains?

How you can respect this type of behavior is beyond me. Would you accept it if the former Delta pilots tried to do the same thing to the former Northwest pilots? Can the majority really just take anything from the minority that they want?

Splash

A reasonable assumption in a closed-looped system, but you don't operate in one of those. You operate in a system with too many variables and too many external factors for your assumption to be reasonable. Your actual system includes other pilots with similar reasonable assumptions. The necessary combination of reasonable assumptions can lead to a situation where there can be no "win-win" between the competing, reasonable assumptions.

You went through one of those.

I went through two.

Incorrect premise!

Your union decided that they couldn't decide, so they sent it to a neutral third-party. That is all they decided!

How do you suggest future conflicts between reasonable assumptions get settled? Give me your model for resolving the looming conflict between reasonable assumptions at UAL-CAL, for example. If your model includes some form of commitment to accept a decision by a third party because the two principals can't reach one - you should see the problem.

USAPA will never be trusted. That is not a reasonable assumption. It's a fact.

Elliot

Not even since the "East" pilots had previously "agreed" to abide by the Arbitrators decision? Come on. Each and every US Scareways East pilot should feel ashamed at what debacle their actions are causing in the company, I know I would. Sure glad it was never the only operation in town, I probably would've chosen to be a "fry cook" at McDonald's instead. ONE WORD.......EMBARRASSING!!

Grow the F##K up Easties, my six year old, just finished Kindergarten on Friday and has more maturity than this BS.

Fly safe,

GJ

justjack

Those of you who can only say “binding is binding” – At what point would you agree that something is so egregious that it should not be binding? Never? What about ALL women pilots to the top of the list. I, the arbitrator, have used a convoluted formula that has lead me to believe that all women would have had a better chance of survival had the merger not taken place. How about AGE based- the younger you are at the time of the merger the more points you get- again I, the arbitrator, have come up with a good reason to implement my formula. Don’t even bother to post legal this or legal that- no. “Binding is binding.” You all agreed, I am the arbitrator, I am the decider. My point is that the East feels that this was a wind fall for the West and they believe that they can prove it in a court of law. Agree or disagree with whether it was a wind fall and as such should and can be overturned- but come on, “binding is binding”?

Elliot

+1,000,000,000 (maybe not that many, but needed the 10 characters)

GJ

Splash

1. Fraud.
2. Operating outside the scope of the assignment.

Neither of those happened. The arbitrator heard testimony from both sides, then decided. The award was not outside the scope of his assignment.

Your example regarding gender is specious. Had the scope of his assignment been EEOC-related, it might be applicable.

Elliot

Carl,

"Forgive me, as I am still new here." But it seems as though the Roberts Award (20 year widebody fence) remained intact for its entirety, correct?

Since, as you elude to, the arbitrators ruling shouldn't be given the value of the paper its written on, why don't we "retroactively" pay all those Republic guys for not being able to bid "widebody" metal at NWA the last 20 years? Seems to come with your logic doesn't it? That the arbitrators aren't the final say?

Maybe you need to come down from that SECOND STORY AIRPLANE & EVEN HIGHER THAN THAT ATTITUDE, and realize that the "children" of US Airways East agreed to something and when in fact, it didn't go "their way" they took their ball and went home, still ****ing, moaning, crying about the award and having the next higher circuit courts clean up after their dirty diapers.

Fly Safe,

GJ