US Airways Appeal
06-09-2010, 02:38 AM
#161
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
And those are THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS comments ever made by a court of law. This implies that BINDING is never really BINDING. This highlights the problems when you have a "Tyranny of the majority" like no other. I feel for the West guys, but also for the UAL/CAL guys as this idiotic judge has now thrown their seniority list integration into a complete black hole.
I am amazed and shocked. This industry has hit a new low.
I am amazed and shocked. This industry has hit a new low.
Greed, selfishness, and stupidity are the hallmark of the East pilot group.
"I've got mine, screw you..." is their battle cry.
06-09-2010, 03:52 AM
#162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 259
Originally Posted by Survivor
I think it was back in 1998 when the East guys got the most restrictive scope language in the industry. As the story goes, the head negotiator, Don Buckcovic (sp), emerged from the conference room after signing the deal and said: "We just got the best scope language in the industry, and we'll probably hang ourselves with it." How right he was.
Greed, selfishness, and stupidity are the hallmark of the East pilot group.
"I've got mine, screw you..." is their battle cry.
Greed, selfishness, and stupidity are the hallmark of the East pilot group.
"I've got mine, screw you..." is their battle cry.
Your post sounds very naive. A lot of embarrassed Alpa supporters on this thread armed with emotions and opinions sans facts.
Lead follow or get the...., out of the way.
06-09-2010, 08:32 AM
#163
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by all4114all
Alpa represented Midwest Airlines had a scope clause crafted under the guidance of Alpa national. How did that go for them?
Your post sounds very naive. A lot of embarrassed Alpa supporters on this thread armed with emotions and opinions sans facts.
Lead follow or get the...., out of the way.
Your post sounds very naive. A lot of embarrassed Alpa supporters on this thread armed with emotions and opinions sans facts.
Lead follow or get the...., out of the way.
ALPA is a business. All of the main line carriers who represent the biggest dues revenue are the "Captains", and all of the smaller ALPA carriers are the "F/Os". Just as happens at our individual properties, Mass Ave figures it's okay to screw the F/Os because they're just paying their dues on the way to the promised land..." The promised land being a big airline job.
Whomever happens to be sitting the the ALPA president's chair doesn't mind signing a sub-standard commuter contract because the less that smaller carrier makes, the less that carrier will charge for feed to the larger ALPA carrier. It doesn't matter whether a commuter carrier is wholly owned or not, less feeder cost = more mainline ALPA carrier revenue = more money to pay mainline ALPA pilots.
"Sorry smaller ALPA carriers... Here are some "Strength From Within" and "Never Forget!" stickers and bag tags for you... now run along, I have to get my kid, my neighbor's kid, and my squadron buddy a job...."
It's all about the money. It always is. If you happen to run across anyone commenting with disdain about Mesa, Trans States, Colgan, etc. Ask them who approved their mediocre contracts. Then remind them that it was the ALPA president. The guy who makes more when the little guys make less.
06-09-2010, 08:57 AM
#164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by Survivor
It's all about the money. It always is. If you happen to run across anyone commenting with disdain about Mesa, Trans States, Colgan, etc. Ask them who approved their mediocre contracts. Then remind them that it was the ALPA president. The guy who makes more when the little guys make less.
Denny
06-09-2010, 09:25 AM
#165
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by Survivor
Naive? Here's my world view:
ALPA is a business. All of the main line carriers who represent the biggest dues revenue are the "Captains", and all of the smaller ALPA carriers are the "F/Os". Just as happens at our individual properties, Mass Ave figures it's okay to screw the F/Os because they're just paying their dues on the way to the promised land..." The promised land being a big airline job.
Whomever happens to be sitting the the ALPA president's chair doesn't mind signing a sub-standard commuter contract because the less that smaller carrier makes, the less that carrier will charge for feed to the larger ALPA carrier. It doesn't matter whether a commuter carrier is wholly owned or not, less feeder cost = more mainline ALPA carrier revenue = more money to pay mainline ALPA pilots.
"Sorry smaller ALPA carriers... Here are some "Strength From Within" and "Never Forget!" stickers and bag tags for you... now run along, I have to get my kid, my neighbor's kid, and my squadron buddy a job...."
It's all about the money. It always is. If you happen to run across anyone commenting with disdain about Mesa, Trans States, Colgan, etc. Ask them who approved their mediocre contracts. Then remind them that it was the ALPA president. The guy who makes more when the little guys make less.
ALPA is a business. All of the main line carriers who represent the biggest dues revenue are the "Captains", and all of the smaller ALPA carriers are the "F/Os". Just as happens at our individual properties, Mass Ave figures it's okay to screw the F/Os because they're just paying their dues on the way to the promised land..." The promised land being a big airline job.
Whomever happens to be sitting the the ALPA president's chair doesn't mind signing a sub-standard commuter contract because the less that smaller carrier makes, the less that carrier will charge for feed to the larger ALPA carrier. It doesn't matter whether a commuter carrier is wholly owned or not, less feeder cost = more mainline ALPA carrier revenue = more money to pay mainline ALPA pilots.
"Sorry smaller ALPA carriers... Here are some "Strength From Within" and "Never Forget!" stickers and bag tags for you... now run along, I have to get my kid, my neighbor's kid, and my squadron buddy a job...."
It's all about the money. It always is. If you happen to run across anyone commenting with disdain about Mesa, Trans States, Colgan, etc. Ask them who approved their mediocre contracts. Then remind them that it was the ALPA president. The guy who makes more when the little guys make less.
If the smaller ALPA carriers pilots were smart that's what they'd do as obviously by virtue of the assertions made in your post ALPA's failing the smaller carriers and by virtue of the obvious reality out there, ALPA is failing the larger carriers too.
In fact, it's obvious ALPA is failing everyone, er..............well, everyone but itself.
ALPA itself is doing pretty good.
06-09-2010, 09:52 AM
#166
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by eaglefly
Sounds like a great argument for the smaller carriers to split from ALPA, then form their own union and persue THEIR interests alone. That would seem to involve plenty of 100-130 seat aircraft allowing more advancement and better pay FOR THEM. If they then "become" the industry (at least domestically), then a new standard is put into existance (they will be the new majority). Then the ALPA president will no longer have any conflict of interest and he can persue his pilot groups interests unfettered.
If the smaller ALPA carriers pilots were smart that's what they'd do as obviously by virtue of the assertions made in your post ALPA's failing the smaller carriers and by virtue of the obvious reality out there, ALPA is failing the larger carriers too.
In fact, it's obvious ALPA is failing everyone, er..............well, everyone but itself.
ALPA itself is doing pretty good.
If the smaller ALPA carriers pilots were smart that's what they'd do as obviously by virtue of the assertions made in your post ALPA's failing the smaller carriers and by virtue of the obvious reality out there, ALPA is failing the larger carriers too.
In fact, it's obvious ALPA is failing everyone, er..............well, everyone but itself.
ALPA itself is doing pretty good.
In spite of its inherent conflict of interest, ALPA is still the best advocate for the pilot profession. Engineering, air safety, aeromedical, and all of the other ALPA departments are there to serve the membership. You won't get quality like ALPA's from the gear jamming thugs at the IBT.
Like I said, it's business.
When ALPA is good, it is the best, when it is bad, the regional carriers get hurt.
06-09-2010, 01:39 PM
#167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 259
Originally Posted by eaglefly
Sounds like a great argument for the smaller carriers to split from ALPA, then form their own union and persue THEIR interests alone. That would seem to involve plenty of 100-130 seat aircraft allowing more advancement and better pay FOR THEM. If they then "become" the industry (at least domestically), then a new standard is put into existance (they will be the new majority). Then the ALPA president will no longer have any conflict of interest and he can persue his pilot groups interests unfettered.
If the smaller ALPA carriers pilots were smart that's what they'd do as obviously by virtue of the assertions made in your post ALPA's failing the smaller carriers and by virtue of the obvious reality out there, ALPA is failing the larger carriers too.
In fact, it's obvious ALPA is failing everyone, er..............well, everyone but itself.
ALPA itself is doing pretty good.
If the smaller ALPA carriers pilots were smart that's what they'd do as obviously by virtue of the assertions made in your post ALPA's failing the smaller carriers and by virtue of the obvious reality out there, ALPA is failing the larger carriers too.
In fact, it's obvious ALPA is failing everyone, er..............well, everyone but itself.
ALPA itself is doing pretty good.
When is the last time CAL, UAL, NWA, DAL carried a picket sign for their own airline? Get it. They were in the Midwest Airlines picket line. (right on bro, we got your back bro, sorry that happened to you bro, whoa, now you do not have a job bro. Here fill out the application for the next airline we will see what we can do.)
You have always heard that history repeats itself, get out while you can.
06-09-2010, 01:49 PM
#168
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by all4114all
Great post and insight. In house unions are the best route. The Spirit pilots are ALPA's fodder. It is a replay of the Midwest Airline pilots history. Air Tran is the next ALPA fodder. They are expecting these pilots to strike.
When is the last time CAL, UAL, NWA, DAL carried a picket sign for their own airline? Get it. They were in the Midwest Airlines picket line. (right on bro, we got your back bro, sorry that happened to you bro, whoa, now you do not have a job bro. Here fill out the application for the next airline we will see what we can do.)
You have always heard that history repeats itself, get out while you can.
When is the last time CAL, UAL, NWA, DAL carried a picket sign for their own airline? Get it. They were in the Midwest Airlines picket line. (right on bro, we got your back bro, sorry that happened to you bro, whoa, now you do not have a job bro. Here fill out the application for the next airline we will see what we can do.)
You have always heard that history repeats itself, get out while you can.
Carl
06-09-2010, 02:38 PM
#170
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by all4114all
1998 is not recent.
Originally Posted by all4114all
Great post and insight. In house unions are the best route. The Spirit pilots are ALPA's fodder. It is a replay of the Midwest Airline pilots history. Air Tran is the next ALPA fodder. They are expecting these pilots to strike.
When is the last time CAL, UAL, NWA, DAL carried a picket sign for their own airline? Get it. They were in the Midwest Airlines picket line. (right on bro, we got your back bro, sorry that happened to you bro, whoa, now you do not have a job bro. Here fill out the application for the next airline we will see what we can do.)
You have always heard that history repeats itself, get out while you can.
When is the last time CAL, UAL, NWA, DAL carried a picket sign for their own airline? Get it. They were in the Midwest Airlines picket line. (right on bro, we got your back bro, sorry that happened to you bro, whoa, now you do not have a job bro. Here fill out the application for the next airline we will see what we can do.)
You have always heard that history repeats itself, get out while you can.
Carl
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