newKnow

You really do a disservice to your self and whatever point you make when you just make stuff up. Do a search of my posts and you will find that you are really barking up the wrong tree. I've slammed ALPA and Prater more often than not. Hell, All you have to do is go back a few pages in this thread and you'll see.

I've also supported your sides arguments from the beginning. But, your position that in in-house union would have gotten you a different result, is incorrect, can't be defended, and is based totally on your emotions. Apparently you realize this because you keep dodging the question.

That's not what the decision or dismissed means, either.

newKnow

It really does your side a disservice when you attack someone who has argued on your behalf before. Cactusmike and the other cactus guy must be laughing their butts off.

If anyone is shrill, it's you.

all4114all

Thank you for your comments. What about my Midwest Airlines question. How did ALPA fail them?

all4114all

Catastrophic News For Pilot Group Midwest Pilots express outrage at airline's deal with Republic Airways - eTurboNews.com

newKnow

ALPA horribly failed Midwest Airlines Pilots and should be a shame to call themselves a union. I posted on the subject when it happened.

That still really doesn't have anything to do with what happened to East pilots. ALPA has failed us all in may ways, but to remain credible, we should not lump everything in the same pot. Try to be objective when you make your arguments and leave the emotion at the door.

all4114all

ALPA Authorizes $2 Million from Union's 'War Chest' to Midwest - Bloomberg.com

all4114all

ALPA famous sound bite, The "emotion" word.

Good Night, be comfortable in the bed you made. I do hope your emotions will not keep you awake when you realize one day what you have stood for, yourself.

newKnow

Once again, you are just making stuff up. "What I have stood for?" "Myself?" Oh, brother. You have no idea what I have stood for.

The lawyer and strategy team who won than case for you guys left their emotions at the door. It was a good argument (I liked it, because I like to win.) that won the court over. They obviously did not consult you. Good night to you, too.

alfaromeo

You might as well be talking to a tape recorder. ALPA is the source of all evil and anyone who disagrees with him is an ALPA shill. He has no ideas, no imagination, just anger.

I would say that their lawyer was really bad. The only thing they had going for them is that most DFR cases (except one or two) have only been decided after a contract was signed. The AOL people were a little too quick on the draw. Remember, there was no discussion on the merits of the case, just whether or not it was ripe for trial. USAPA lost the DFR case in a big way and they will probably lose again unless they change their tune. Their lawyer is good at one thing: collecting money from USAPA.

I find it odd that you are cheering this gang on. Who is USAPA fighting right now?

A. LCC Management for better pay and work rules
B. Their fellow pilots trying to redo their seniority list

The answer is B. I can understand how after 20 years of Roberts award internal fighting, that some NWA pilots might think it is normal for a union to be pointing the swords inward and trying to take from each other. It is not normal and it is the reason that LCC pilots have the worst contract in the industry. What is there to cheer about here? Fellow pilots fighting fellow pilots. Hip, Hip, Hooray.

newKnow

alfa,

Let me state my positions, so you know where I stand:

1.) I think the Nicolau Award was a bad deal for the East pilots.
2.) I think this situation is a bad deal for the West pilots.
3.) I like the mentality that nothing is decided until every angle is exhausted.
4.) I had no problem with the East group calculating and executing a move to get away from ALPA to get what they want. (I think they should have done it long ago when their pensions were taken. Along with UAL and DAL).
5.) I have no problem with the West taking the USAPA to court for DFR.
6.) I hope the creation of USAPA gave ALPA a wake-up call to fight for us.
7.) I hope this litigation was a wake-up call to arbitrators to construct their seniority lists more carefully. (It might have helped our SLI.)

I disagree with you in that you think that the USAPA lawyer is pretty bad. As a lawyer, you have to work with the case as it presents itself. Yes, I understand very well that the only thing the court has said is that the case is not ripe. But, sometimes the the only thing you need in a case is the one and only thing you have going for you. If that's what they use, I say go for it. I wish ALPA would have done the same when it came to:

1.) RJ's
2.) Concessionary contracts
3.) Pension terminations and freezes
4.) Age 65

And they better learn that they had better use it for upcoming battles like CVR's in the cockpit and whatever UAL did with Air Lingus.


The bottom line is that while what USAPA is doing is in may eyes despicable, it is apparently legal and accomplishing its goal of delaying the implementation of the Nicolau award. Sure, they are losing money in the long run because of a lack of a CBA, but if that's what they want, that's what they got.

Personally, I'm not cheering anyone on. I'm watching and learning. I would hope ALPA is as well. In my book, it's best to learn from what the winners do, because when you "fight" in a courtroom, you point to what past winners did and say, "I want to do that, too."

Finally, I don't have anything to do with the Roberts Award because I was hired long after that merger. So, I never advocated "pointing the swords inwards and trying to take from each other." But, I have been here long enough to know that sometimes things are so bad that you you become willing to do whatever it takes to make things better. I'm not at that point now, but, if that's what THEY want to do, it's fully within their right to do so. Just as it is in the West's rights to fight for what they want. Kudos to them for bringing the suit, albeit a bit too early.

So, what is there to cheer about? Maybe, that there are some pilots out there who will fight for what they want. I thought they were all retired.

New K Now