Please read
08-17-2018, 10:38 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 105
Please read
I work for Mesa, and just spoke to someone within the Training Dept this morning who told me many of the new CAE instructors employed by Mesa are not providing adequate new-hire training (upgrade included) . . . to the point where the APD's are forced to fail these students on their checkrides.
This explains the recent abnormally-high failure rate.
I was able to confirm this with others (within the training dept) who would know.
Mesa is in the process of moving their pilot instructors and APD's back to the line - and hiring third-party instructors to take their place. At this point, most of these instructors are not Mesa (or even former Mesa) employees - but pilots who came from other airlines and airplanes. In short, the training is sub-par due to this current changeover.
This is specific to the CRJ. I can't speak to the status of the E-jet training.
Also, this does not apply to AQP. There is an agreement between Mesa and the FAA that requires AQP to be conducted by Mesa line pilots.
This is not to say this issue cannot be fixed. I'm sure it will eventually, as it should. However, in the meantime, I would steer clear of Mesa until they get this straightened out.
I'm not speaking as an employee here - but as a concerned fellow pilot. If I were trying to choose which regional airline to fly for, I would most definitely want to be aware of this. One could potentially be an excellent and proficient pilot - but still inadvertently be set up for failure through no fault of their own. The stakes are too high to go into training unaware of this.
If you're currently in training for the CRJ, and about to go to the sim . . . it might be wise to find out exactly who your sim instructor will be. More specifically - what is their background? If they have no CRJ experience - nor any time at Mesa - it might be time to pull out of training for awhile.
If it were me - in a future interview with a career airline, I'd much rather explain why I backed out of training at Mesa . . . than try to explain a checkride failure that wasn't my fault.
Mesa's APD personnel are aware of the problem, but are unable to do anything about it. At this point, their only choice is to fail the pilot on the checkride (they obviously can't give a do-over because of the sub-par training).
The debate regarding why this was allowed to happen is probably best left for another thread.
I have nothing to gain by posting this, so please don't read anything more into it. As previously stated - if it were me, I'd want to know this information. I don't want to reveal who I spoke to - nor their current positions - so as not to allow anyone on this site to identify them. They were very adamant to me about remaining anonymous - and understandably so. They're trying to remain professional under very difficult (and unfortunate) circumstances.
This explains the recent abnormally-high failure rate.
I was able to confirm this with others (within the training dept) who would know.
Mesa is in the process of moving their pilot instructors and APD's back to the line - and hiring third-party instructors to take their place. At this point, most of these instructors are not Mesa (or even former Mesa) employees - but pilots who came from other airlines and airplanes. In short, the training is sub-par due to this current changeover.
This is specific to the CRJ. I can't speak to the status of the E-jet training.
Also, this does not apply to AQP. There is an agreement between Mesa and the FAA that requires AQP to be conducted by Mesa line pilots.
This is not to say this issue cannot be fixed. I'm sure it will eventually, as it should. However, in the meantime, I would steer clear of Mesa until they get this straightened out.
I'm not speaking as an employee here - but as a concerned fellow pilot. If I were trying to choose which regional airline to fly for, I would most definitely want to be aware of this. One could potentially be an excellent and proficient pilot - but still inadvertently be set up for failure through no fault of their own. The stakes are too high to go into training unaware of this.
If you're currently in training for the CRJ, and about to go to the sim . . . it might be wise to find out exactly who your sim instructor will be. More specifically - what is their background? If they have no CRJ experience - nor any time at Mesa - it might be time to pull out of training for awhile.
If it were me - in a future interview with a career airline, I'd much rather explain why I backed out of training at Mesa . . . than try to explain a checkride failure that wasn't my fault.
Mesa's APD personnel are aware of the problem, but are unable to do anything about it. At this point, their only choice is to fail the pilot on the checkride (they obviously can't give a do-over because of the sub-par training).
The debate regarding why this was allowed to happen is probably best left for another thread.
I have nothing to gain by posting this, so please don't read anything more into it. As previously stated - if it were me, I'd want to know this information. I don't want to reveal who I spoke to - nor their current positions - so as not to allow anyone on this site to identify them. They were very adamant to me about remaining anonymous - and understandably so. They're trying to remain professional under very difficult (and unfortunate) circumstances.
08-17-2018, 12:14 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,022
Originally Posted by Brody
I work for Mesa, and just spoke to someone within the Training Dept this morning who told me many of the new CAE instructors employed by Mesa are not providing adequate new-hire training (upgrade included) . . . to the point where the APD's are forced to fail these students on their checkrides.
This explains the recent abnormally-high failure rate.
I was able to confirm this with others (within the training dept) who would know.
Mesa is in the process of moving their pilot instructors and APD's back to the line - and hiring third-party instructors to take their place. At this point, most of these instructors are not Mesa (or even former Mesa) employees - but pilots who came from other airlines and airplanes. In short, the training is sub-par due to this current changeover.
This is specific to the CRJ. I can't speak to the status of the E-jet training.
Also, this does not apply to AQP. There is an agreement between Mesa and the FAA that requires AQP to be conducted by Mesa line pilots.
This is not to say this issue cannot be fixed. I'm sure it will eventually, as it should. However, in the meantime, I would steer clear of Mesa until they get this straightened out.
I'm not speaking as an employee here - but as a concerned fellow pilot. If I were trying to choose which regional airline to fly for, I would most definitely want to be aware of this. One could potentially be an excellent and proficient pilot - but still inadvertently be set up for failure through no fault of their own. The stakes are too high to go into training unaware of this.
If you're currently in training for the CRJ, and about to go to the sim . . . it might be wise to find out exactly who your sim instructor will be. More specifically - what is their background? If they have no CRJ experience - nor any time at Mesa - it might be time to pull out of training for awhile.
If it were me - in a future interview with a career airline, I'd much rather explain why I backed out of training at Mesa . . . than try to explain a checkride failure that wasn't my fault.
Mesa's APD personnel are aware of the problem, but are unable to do anything about it. At this point, their only choice is to fail the pilot on the checkride (they obviously can't give a do-over because of the sub-par training).
The debate regarding why this was allowed to happen is probably best left for another thread.
I have nothing to gain by posting this, so please don't read anything more into it. As previously stated - if it were me, I'd want to know this information. I don't want to reveal who I spoke to - nor their current positions - so as not to allow anyone on this site to identify them. They were very adamant to me about remaining anonymous - and understandably so. They're trying to remain professional under very difficult (and unfortunate) circumstances.
This explains the recent abnormally-high failure rate.
I was able to confirm this with others (within the training dept) who would know.
Mesa is in the process of moving their pilot instructors and APD's back to the line - and hiring third-party instructors to take their place. At this point, most of these instructors are not Mesa (or even former Mesa) employees - but pilots who came from other airlines and airplanes. In short, the training is sub-par due to this current changeover.
This is specific to the CRJ. I can't speak to the status of the E-jet training.
Also, this does not apply to AQP. There is an agreement between Mesa and the FAA that requires AQP to be conducted by Mesa line pilots.
This is not to say this issue cannot be fixed. I'm sure it will eventually, as it should. However, in the meantime, I would steer clear of Mesa until they get this straightened out.
I'm not speaking as an employee here - but as a concerned fellow pilot. If I were trying to choose which regional airline to fly for, I would most definitely want to be aware of this. One could potentially be an excellent and proficient pilot - but still inadvertently be set up for failure through no fault of their own. The stakes are too high to go into training unaware of this.
If you're currently in training for the CRJ, and about to go to the sim . . . it might be wise to find out exactly who your sim instructor will be. More specifically - what is their background? If they have no CRJ experience - nor any time at Mesa - it might be time to pull out of training for awhile.
If it were me - in a future interview with a career airline, I'd much rather explain why I backed out of training at Mesa . . . than try to explain a checkride failure that wasn't my fault.
Mesa's APD personnel are aware of the problem, but are unable to do anything about it. At this point, their only choice is to fail the pilot on the checkride (they obviously can't give a do-over because of the sub-par training).
The debate regarding why this was allowed to happen is probably best left for another thread.
I have nothing to gain by posting this, so please don't read anything more into it. As previously stated - if it were me, I'd want to know this information. I don't want to reveal who I spoke to - nor their current positions - so as not to allow anyone on this site to identify them. They were very adamant to me about remaining anonymous - and understandably so. They're trying to remain professional under very difficult (and unfortunate) circumstances.
Que Calmwinds to refute in 3, 2, 1....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
08-17-2018, 12:26 PM
#3
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 42
There has been a lot of chaos on the CRJ side for sure, but from my recent experience, some of the above information is not correct.
-There are currently only two contract instructors. Both have 10+ years on he CRJ at other regionals.
-Most of those that contributed to the high failure rate were actually instructors hired on as sim contract instructors. Something like fourteen were hired on and sent through groundschool, with two getting signed off as sim instructors.
-In May and June most of the instructors were pulled to the line, first to make the numbers look good for the IPO and the investors that were regularly touring, then to cover a lot of flights for the PSA debacle. They are all back now.
-Scheduling is very disorganized, and the scheduling girl is overworked and underpaid. You will probably have many different instructors. I had all of them. I passed my checkride though.
-Washouts from other airlines are also contributing to the high failure rate.
I was pretty happy with all the training, except FPT. Four days of an instructor re-reading the GOM, and the CFM, and four hours of watching two other students go over flows on the computer trainer.That was really non-productive. There is no FMS trainer. I’d recommend observing sims, and obsessively memorizing and studying all of the profiles before you get to the sim.
-There are currently only two contract instructors. Both have 10+ years on he CRJ at other regionals.
-Most of those that contributed to the high failure rate were actually instructors hired on as sim contract instructors. Something like fourteen were hired on and sent through groundschool, with two getting signed off as sim instructors.
-In May and June most of the instructors were pulled to the line, first to make the numbers look good for the IPO and the investors that were regularly touring, then to cover a lot of flights for the PSA debacle. They are all back now.
-Scheduling is very disorganized, and the scheduling girl is overworked and underpaid. You will probably have many different instructors. I had all of them. I passed my checkride though.
-Washouts from other airlines are also contributing to the high failure rate.
I was pretty happy with all the training, except FPT. Four days of an instructor re-reading the GOM, and the CFM, and four hours of watching two other students go over flows on the computer trainer.That was really non-productive. There is no FMS trainer. I’d recommend observing sims, and obsessively memorizing and studying all of the profiles before you get to the sim.
08-17-2018, 01:37 PM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Brody
This came straight from the horse's mouth.
I'm not going to identify the horse.
If you guys want to refute this, go ahead. You have NO idea who I spoke to, or what was discussed.
But I do
I'm not going to identify the horse.
If you guys want to refute this, go ahead. You have NO idea who I spoke to, or what was discussed.
But I do
Also, the recruiters are sending guys to class that are 5-10 (our even more) years out of currency, and telling them not to waste money getting instrument proficient or current before indoc, that they will be trained here.
08-17-2018, 05:10 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
Originally Posted by piloto2
You beat me to it!
08-18-2018, 04:19 PM
#9
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,275
Originally Posted by calmwinds
No refute. I can’t speak about the state of the training department and I was complaining that the Ejet new hires training from a schedule perspective was going in the wrong direction. I did figure out this week that we are 5 months from doh to IOE on the Ejet - still down from the worst of it, but still unacceptable.
11-17-2018, 05:13 AM
#10
New Hire
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Position: Right & Left
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by squawk 762
There has been a lot of chaos on the CRJ side for sure, but from my recent experience, some of the above information is not correct.
-There are currently only two contract instructors. Both have 10+ years on he CRJ at other regionals.
-Most of those that contributed to the high failure rate were actually instructors hired on as sim contract instructors. Something like fourteen were hired on and sent through groundschool, with two getting signed off as sim instructors.
-In May and June most of the instructors were pulled to the line, first to make the numbers look good for the IPO and the investors that were regularly touring, then to cover a lot of flights for the PSA debacle. They are all back now.
-There are currently only two contract instructors. Both have 10+ years on he CRJ at other regionals.
-Scheduling is very disorganized, and the scheduling girl is overworked and underpaid. You will probably have many different instructors. I had all of them. I passed my checkride though.
-Washouts from other airlines are also contributing to the high failure rate.
I was pretty happy with all the training, except FPT. Four days of an instructor re-reading the GOM, and the CFM, and four hours of watching two other students go over flows on the computer trainer.That was really non-productive. There is no FMS trainer. I’d recommend observing sims, and obsessively memorizing and studying all of the profiles before you get to the sim.
-There are currently only two contract instructors. Both have 10+ years on he CRJ at other regionals.
-Most of those that contributed to the high failure rate were actually instructors hired on as sim contract instructors. Something like fourteen were hired on and sent through groundschool, with two getting signed off as sim instructors.
-In May and June most of the instructors were pulled to the line, first to make the numbers look good for the IPO and the investors that were regularly touring, then to cover a lot of flights for the PSA debacle. They are all back now.
-There are currently only two contract instructors. Both have 10+ years on he CRJ at other regionals.
-Scheduling is very disorganized, and the scheduling girl is overworked and underpaid. You will probably have many different instructors. I had all of them. I passed my checkride though.
-Washouts from other airlines are also contributing to the high failure rate.
I was pretty happy with all the training, except FPT. Four days of an instructor re-reading the GOM, and the CFM, and four hours of watching two other students go over flows on the computer trainer.That was really non-productive. There is no FMS trainer. I’d recommend observing sims, and obsessively memorizing and studying all of the profiles before you get to the sim.
-There are currently only two contract instructors. Both have 10+ years on he CRJ at other regionals.
WoW 10+ years on the CRJ and still not able to progress in their airline careers!!Hmmmm....
In this crazy hiring culture, esp. with 'Flow Through's" and such, it sure as heck, ain't their love for the CRJ. More like having some skeletons in their closets, (so to speak)...i.e. past/present training issues, personality issues, no 4 year college degree or just simply unable to pass an interview!!
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