You're a wise man +1

 

I remember when I was in upgrade at Colgan and Phil Trenary came in to talk to our class. He was giving an overview of the regional industry and get got to the point of Mesa.

He mentioned that he guaranteed Mesa would be back, bigger than ever, and Ornstein would be out for blood.

If only I hadn't laughed then...

 

I'm experienced. A wise man would GTFO of the industry altogether.

 

My god, in what world are you living??? First, regional airlines don't live in a vacuum. Supply/demand dictates that if someone can make around or near $300k now as a widebody Captain at a major, there had better be at least some sort of carrot at a regional to keep a few experienced people around. If one can go to China and make $150k+ from day one there had better be some incentive to keep people from jumping ship. There is a good deal of competition for qualified pilots finally. If the regionals don't offer an incentive to stay, people won't stay. They do need to retain *some* of their senior Captains, and a reasonable left seat payscale may make, say, a 50yr old Captain who was a career changer (i.e., not a "failed" pilot) think about sticking around, and this is not a bad thing for the airline. Airlines need experienced pilots to retain any sort of culture of safety and professionalism, both of which are required in the 121 environment.

Second, most regionals are flying a great deal of 70+ seat aircraft along with the 50 seaters. Same airspace, same passengers, and same ballpark number of seats as plenty of smaller legacy aircraft from a few years back. The piece of the pie is not, as you say, excessive. The problem is the pie is too small by far. No easy fix, but a few overwhelming No votes recently are a good first step. But perhaps you would not know about voting No and seeking pay and QOL improvements.

For you to get started on some rant about failed pilots and excessive regional left seat pay marks you as either troll or management.

 

Then call me a failure and a loser because my first choice is RAH. Why?If i make captain i instantly become a lifer. Other regionals are getting 175's. Republic already has 175's. I don't want to go through ground school 5 times and i don't want 5 type ratings. I want to endure the suck only once and then get the seniority to have a decent quality of life. These kids that are obsessed with going to a major especially before even getting to a regional are idiots. Yeah i know i am one to talk because im not in the industry yet. But in all honesty id still rather have SJS than dig ditches. But 60-100k a year fling for a living doesn't sound too bad to me! Before anybody says the whole you don't have the right goals you are whats wrong with the industry blah blah blah. Come on guys, this industry was messed up as it is. It was a bad idea to start regional airlines in the first place and didn't make sense financially. Flame away at my post but thats just how i feel and in America i am at least entitled to my opinion.

 

Maybe what you don't understand, is that due to the nature of the outsourcing regional model, you probably won't be able to have a career at the regionals. They are built on cheap labor, after you get up the ladder to 10 yrs, you are too expensive. With a senior pilot group, they can't compete with a regional with a newer, cheaper workforce.

Then there is the BS, EVERYTHING is done on the cheap. All the support staff are hired on the cheap. So everyday, you are not only doing your job, but scheduling's, dispatches, payroll, and ramp's. You are a contractor, so your travel privileges aren't as good either.

Then at some point, you and your co-workers get fed up with doing everybody else's job, and that begins or accelerates the demise of the airline. At that point, they try to get labor cost cuts AND they also start their endgame plan--bankruptcy or wind-down. Now you've been there 10 yrs, making decent pay as a captain. What are your options? Ride it out for another couple of years, or start over again somewhere else? That is the way it is currently. Also, you will need 100k+ worth of training, and experience, plus a 4,5,6,7,8... years? before you get to that 60K dollar paycheck.

I can get a 2 yr degree as a technical specialist in operating medical equipment and START at 60K!

 

I haven't spent a cent on aviation just time that 60k a year is all profit. An yes I know I am very rare.

 

Well then, this career is a hobby for you. But even if you don't spend any money on training, you still won't be MAKING much money for a while either. Unless you don't need that income, so then I get back to my original statement. I think, however, if you have nothing invested in this career you will be one of the first to become disgruntled by it. That has been my experience with the people I have met.

 

How do you figure ?

 

Can anybody provide a source that cites Ornstein is actually a convicted felon? I'm not trolling, just looking for a legitimate source to back up that statement.

I've done a few Google searches and all I've come up with is a few puff pieces by Forbes, about his checkered past as a stockbroker, and his SEC violations and sanctions. But I can't find anything that actually says he received felony convictions.