Mesa 3.0
01-18-2019, 02:59 AM
#6162
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Retired
Posts: 63
The "x/x/x" braking action report has been standard since 10/1/16, resulting from the SW accident at Midway in 2005.
It was designed to replace the good, poor, bad, nil commentary, but only for ATIS reports. ATC/Tower still are allowed to use the good, medium, poor, and nil terminology when asked or giving PIREPs.
Ever since the aviation industry realized airplanes don't stop on "poor" or "nil" runways, the overwhelming majority of airlines prohibit landing on such reported runways as a matter of policy. It's been this way for years, even before the new, updated, and utterly confusing "x/x/x" reporting.
Why this Captain would land on a "nil" reported runway is beyond belief but points to yet another Mesa fail, across many levels. Thankfully nobody was hurt.
It was designed to replace the good, poor, bad, nil commentary, but only for ATIS reports. ATC/Tower still are allowed to use the good, medium, poor, and nil terminology when asked or giving PIREPs.
Ever since the aviation industry realized airplanes don't stop on "poor" or "nil" runways, the overwhelming majority of airlines prohibit landing on such reported runways as a matter of policy. It's been this way for years, even before the new, updated, and utterly confusing "x/x/x" reporting.
Why this Captain would land on a "nil" reported runway is beyond belief but points to yet another Mesa fail, across many levels. Thankfully nobody was hurt.
01-18-2019, 04:06 AM
#6163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: CRJ9 CA
Posts: 4,083
Listen to the recording.
They CLEANED AND WORKED ON THE RUNWAY AFTER THE PIREP.
They CLEANED AND WORKED ON THE RUNWAY AFTER THE PIREP.
Originally Posted by DonConsult67
The "x/x/x" braking action report has been standard since 10/1/16, resulting from the SW accident at Midway in 2005.
It was designed to replace the good, poor, bad, nil commentary, but only for ATIS reports. ATC/Tower still are allowed to use the good, medium, poor, and nil terminology when asked or giving PIREPs.
Ever since the aviation industry realized airplanes don't stop on "poor" or "nil" runways, the overwhelming majority of airlines prohibit landing on such reported runways as a matter of policy. It's been this way for years, even before the new, updated, and utterly confusing "x/x/x" reporting.
Why this Captain would land on a "nil" reported runway is beyond belief but points to yet another Mesa fail, across many levels. Thankfully nobody was hurt.
It was designed to replace the good, poor, bad, nil commentary, but only for ATIS reports. ATC/Tower still are allowed to use the good, medium, poor, and nil terminology when asked or giving PIREPs.
Ever since the aviation industry realized airplanes don't stop on "poor" or "nil" runways, the overwhelming majority of airlines prohibit landing on such reported runways as a matter of policy. It's been this way for years, even before the new, updated, and utterly confusing "x/x/x" reporting.
Why this Captain would land on a "nil" reported runway is beyond belief but points to yet another Mesa fail, across many levels. Thankfully nobody was hurt.
01-18-2019, 05:18 AM
#6164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
Originally Posted by pangolin
Listen to the recording.
They CLEANED AND WORKED ON THE RUNWAY AFTER THE PIREP.
They CLEANED AND WORKED ON THE RUNWAY AFTER THE PIREP.
As we say, bending metal is the quickest way to being hired by the majors if the pilot doesn’t get fired for doing it.
01-18-2019, 05:29 AM
#6165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 688
It's very easy for everyone who wasn't there to sit back and attempt to figure out how the crews were wrong. But you were not there and do not know what happened.
I was not there and do not know what happened. I do know that the crew has already been put back online (it's not hard to find that info).
That in of itself is very telling here.
I was not there and do not know what happened. I do know that the crew has already been put back online (it's not hard to find that info).
That in of itself is very telling here.
01-18-2019, 05:51 AM
#6166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: CRJ9 CA
Posts: 4,083
Originally Posted by calmwinds
So, ATC convinced the pilot to proceed. I can understand the mistake. Read the GOM on TALPA. TALPA cannot improve a PIREP, only degrade the runway condition.
As we say, bending metal is the quickest way to being hired by the majors if the pilot doesn’t get fired for doing it.
As we say, bending metal is the quickest way to being hired by the majors if the pilot doesn’t get fired for doing it.
Airport receives a braking action poor Pirep.
They clean the runway.
The RETEST IT - and get 3/3/3.
They report the pirep AND the fact that since the pirep they worked to clear and improve the runway.
The pirep was for conditions that no longer exist - the runway has been worked on.
Besides it wasn't that runway where the excursion occurred.
01-18-2019, 12:06 PM
#6169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by calmwinds
Then, ATC screwed up. TALPA cannot supercede a PIREP. When you go to upgrade, that is taught. Every captain should know that.
That being said, I’d like to think I’d give pause to landing when hearing a 0 in a braking action report.
Obviously I won’t say who this crew was, but trust me- they were *very* senior; both of them.
Without being there, we don’t know if they both made a poor decision, if one pressured the other into it and there was finger pointing and yelling afterwards. ? Were they pulled offline? Or did they re-po the a/c?
is FAA investigating?
Again, none of this was even touched on in upgrade training- take that for what you want.
01-18-2019, 01:32 PM
#6170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
Originally Posted by MysteriousMrX
I recently upgraded.. never even heard of “TALPA” until now and had to google it. NONE of this was even touched on in upgrade.
That being said, I’d like to think I’d give pause to landing when hearing a 0 in a braking action report.
Obviously I won’t say who this crew was, but trust me- they were *very* senior; both of them.
Without being there, we don’t know if they both made a poor decision, if one pressured the other into it and there was finger pointing and yelling afterwards. ? Were they pulled offline? Or did they re-po the a/c?
is FAA investigating?
Again, none of this was even touched on in upgrade training- take that for what you want.
That being said, I’d like to think I’d give pause to landing when hearing a 0 in a braking action report.
Obviously I won’t say who this crew was, but trust me- they were *very* senior; both of them.
Without being there, we don’t know if they both made a poor decision, if one pressured the other into it and there was finger pointing and yelling afterwards. ? Were they pulled offline? Or did they re-po the a/c?
is FAA investigating?
Again, none of this was even touched on in upgrade training- take that for what you want.
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