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Quote: I'll be the first to picket and go on strike for as long as it takes, even if it means shutting the doors. The RLA sucks and the thread on the Union board about it was started by me, but the reality is we still have to work inside of it. Pragmatism unfortunately trumps idealism.
I appreciate your response. This is not a "I'm right, your wrong senario". There are many stages to making change occur and that a sic-out is a first step. Very passive and easy for many to participate in. Picketing would be a future endeavor. Can we agree on that?
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Quote: anyone hear about this?

http://payus6372.wixsite.com/sickout
That's not illegal at all....
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Yes it is.

United Airlines Vs. Pilots Union - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/cwc/prof...ot-sickout.pdf

Delta sues pilots; United, IAM to talk - Dec. 5, 2000
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sarcasm didn't translate, I wanted to show that it absolutely is illegal.
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Quote: If and when we get to Mediation, that won't help our cause. That' assuming ALPA isn't sued to high heaven first. We're better off accelerating everything possible to reach a strike vote ASAP, whether or not we'll ever be allowed to.

Market forces will probably do most of our negotiating for us in the next 6-12 months, anyway.
ALPA can be sued, but it'd be pretty obvious to any judge that ALPA had zero hand in what appears to be some misguided individual's attempt to organize such a thing--for all you know it could be some disgruntled former Mesa pilot, or some kid in his mom's basement.

ALPA is probably already hand-in-hand with management diligently trying to get that taken down. And honestly, the company probably doesn't even care--they'll just extend a bunch of reserves into their off days and payout 150-200-300% until it's all covered.

Whoever is doing this should consider the fact that the only people they're really hurting with this are reserves, passengers, flight attendants--who don't have cancellation pay. And also anyone unfortunate enough to be legitimately sick or coming off a block of reserve days on those days. Remember the conference call--JO doesn't care--he'll still get the same paycheck at the end of the day.

Spend your time and energy and anger filling out apps ya'll--your feet are more powerful any amount of sick calls/writeups/whatever else you think you're going to pull off.
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Quote: I appreciate your response. This is not a "I'm right, your wrong senario". There are many stages to making change occur and that a sic-out is a first step. Very passive and easy for many to participate in. Picketing would be a future endeavor. Can we agree on that?
Dude you have no idea what you're doing--this mentality will only hurt the pilot group.

You seem pretty new to the industry and extremely misinformed about what a pilot group's actual legal options are when they want to fight management--while I agree our ALPA chapter is not utilizing ANY of the LEGAL tools they have to turn the screws on mgmt/JO, a sick out is not a legal option in any way shape or form.

What you new folks don't understand is that most of the militant pilot actions you've probably read about in the past ALL occurred when there were very few other opportunities available for pilots. i.e., during recessions, furloughs, and mergers where guys were getting stapled.

In THIS hiring environment and in THIS economy, as a new 121 guy, YOUR back is not against the wall--fighting the company with misguided actions like this, instead of just speaking with your feet and going to Envoy? Well it's just plain stupid and anyone whose been through a REAL furlough when things were REALLY hard--well you just look like a foolish child to us old timers.

Basically, you're like a little kid pulling a gun on your boss and demanding more money/respect, while you are surrounded by people willingly offering you more money and respect. That's exactly what it looks like from my perspective.

Have more respect for yourself and your fellow crewmembers and take positive action to improve your situation in life by applying to Envoy/PSA/Endeavor and the majors.

Repeat after me: speak with your feet--not with a sickout.
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Quote: Dude you have no idea what you're doing--this mentality will only hurt the pilot group.

You seem pretty new to the industry and extremely misinformed about what a pilot group's actual legal options are when they want to fight management--while I agree our ALPA chapter is not utilizing ANY of the LEGAL tools they have to turn the screws on mgmt/JO, a sick out is not a legal option in any way shape or form.

What you new folks don't understand is that most of the militant pilot actions you've probably read about in the past ALL occurred when there were very few other opportunities available for pilots. i.e., during recessions, furloughs, and mergers where guys were getting stapled.

In THIS hiring environment and in THIS economy, as a new 121 guy, YOUR back is not against the wall--fighting the company with misguided actions like this, instead of just speaking with your feet and going to Envoy? Well it's just plain stupid and anyone whose been through a REAL furlough when things were REALLY hard--well you just look like a foolish child to us old timers.

Basically, you're like a little kid pulling a gun on your boss and demanding more money/respect, while you are surrounded by people willingly offering you more money and respect. That's exactly what it looks like from my perspective.

Have more respect for yourself and your fellow crewmembers and take positive action to improve your situation in life by applying to Envoy/PSA/Endeavor and the majors.

Repeat after me: speak with your feet--not with a sickout.
It's a prisoners dilemma though. The people who vote with their feet don't reap the same rewards as those still around once the company gives in. Of course those who do nothing and just wait it out never know if ANYTHING will EVER happen.

In the end it's about which move gets more money in your pocket in the long term
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Quote: It's a prisoners dilemma though. The people who vote with their feet don't reap the same rewards as those still around once the company gives in. Of course those who do nothing and just wait it out never know if ANYTHING will EVER happen.

In the end it's about which move gets more money in your pocket in the long term
Company gives in on what exactly? I'm sure you'll get some raises in the next year. But will they be $40 /hour starting pay plus retention bonuses? And that's just the current status quo. In 6 months it will be higher. So what rewards are you hoping to reap? Upgrade to CA eventually and THEN make as much as an FO at another regional? Anyone looking to stay at Mesa is delusional and in for a rough ride down the road.
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Quote: ALPA can be sued, but it'd be pretty obvious to any judge that ALPA had zero hand in what appears to be some misguided individual's attempt to organize such a thing--for all you know it could be some disgruntled former Mesa pilot, or some kid in his mom's basement.

ALPA is probably already hand-in-hand with management diligently trying to get that taken down. And honestly, the company probably doesn't even care--they'll just extend a bunch of reserves into their off days and payout 150-200-300% until it's all covered.

Whoever is doing this should consider the fact that the only people they're really hurting with this are reserves, passengers, flight attendants--who don't have cancellation pay. And also anyone unfortunate enough to be legitimately sick or coming off a block of reserve days on those days. Remember the conference call--JO doesn't care--he'll still get the same paycheck at the end of the day.

Spend your time and energy and anger filling out apps ya'll--your feet are more powerful any amount of sick calls/writeups/whatever else you think you're going to pull off.
Well said. Is this JO? Lol... Can I borrow one of your Ferrari's or *****es? I'm just kidding. Have a great day at the wine tasting.
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Quote: It's a prisoners dilemma though. The people who vote with their feet don't reap the same rewards as those still around once the company gives in. Of course those who do nothing and just wait it out never know if ANYTHING will EVER happen.

In the end it's about which move gets more money in your pocket in the long term
Voting with your feet will reap rewards far greater than anything Mesa could afford to offer
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