e6bpilot

I never got asked for a 214 at my airline. They will call all your old bosses though. Imagine their surprise.

e6bpilot

Dude, your plan is shady AF and if you don't see that, you have a skewed outlook.
You will literally be screwing reserves and fellow career intermission people. This isn't the early 2000s. That was a different time and those guys followed the rules.
Try telling the interviewers your plan and see how that goes.

Otterbox

Not sure if they'd actually release you for an airline but apply to an AA WO with a flow- give them 2 years then go back for 4... and leave AD in Time for your flow to AA...

tbat15

It sounds like this might work with a Envoy RTP type program. They require a 2 year commitment and then the Navy would require a 4 year commitment on the backside while waiting for your AA flow to hit.

Obviously all parties would be informed of what my situation was and I still think this is only shady if you tried to hide what you're doing or attempted to flee from a obligation. A large part of doing something like this would be to see if I even enjoyed an airline a career at all. I'd hate to toss a AD retirement down the drain and then find out that I don't really even enjoy working the job.

Out of the box yes but I think you're going to start seeing more out of the box programs because it's obvious the current way of doing business is not working for the military or the airlines. In fact, reading a article about the Air Force considering a program such as this is what spurred me to do some research in the first place. They are proposing to allow a guy to leave service for a period of time to obtain a seniority number and then return to their military career. Win win for everyone involved.

60av8tor

I'm glad to see your statement above, as I, too, thought it sounded shady AF. I still question if a program like this would, or should, enable a plan like you're suggesting, but if everything is out in the open, more power to you, I guess. I forget what you said in a previous post, but I imagine there are some pretty large service obligations following something like this.


This I just don't see happening - and this is the part I feel is shady. You're going to hire on, let's say for a year, get a seniority number, then bail for seven consecutive years..? Then you complete AD, get your retirement, and come back to your civilian employer after 7 years with 8 years of seniority..? You think that's a win win for everyone? You? No doubt about it! Your service branch? More so, depending on the additional service obligation, and how much retraining is required after 3 years away. Mainline - who could've hired you after you retired, but now has to pay you 8 years seniority for only 1 year of use (not to mention retraining after your years away)? I never see that happening. The guy sitting to your left who's been slogging it out doing his time for his reserve retirement who you're now senior to after being (back) on property for 24 hours since leaving 7 years ago? That would be some interesting conversation. IMO, this is nowhere similar to an employer hiring a member of the guard/reserves. I watched the link below in its entirety (I'll never get that 1:23 back). Other than making me really glad I'm no longer around the staff think tanks I used to sit in, I thought it was crazy when I heard Lt. Gen. Grosso mention what you're referring to. Perhaps I'm missing how this fixes a problem and how this benefits both sides of the equation, but I just don't see it.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?426158...pilot-shortage

tbat15

I agree 7 years may be a little excessive but I think 3-4 years would be manageable on both sides. What I think the General is proposing is more flexibility with AD careers. You have two very rigid systems competing against each other right now: AD retirement vs airline seniority. The current system only allows for one winner either the airlines or the AD military and the AD side is getting slaughtered.

If programs were available that would let you flow back and forth between the two then I think you would see a lot more guys staying on AD.You can argue that the function of the reserves is to allow this kind of flexibility but if the AD side wants to keep people they need to start becoming more innovative with their career progression and not just keep tossing money at the problem.

e6bpilot

Lloyd Christmas....you guys don't get it.
This program was designed for folks who want to do things like start a family, finish a masters degree, care for a parent or child, etc. It isn't designed for someone to start a second career and then take advantage of a law that was designed to rightfully protect reservists who were being involuntarily recalled for your own convenience. Neither the military or the airlines exist for your convenience. Quite the opposite in fact.
What you are proposing is an affront to all the hard working guys who chose to either stay in and suck it up or do the reserve thing and try to balance that life for years.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
No employer in their right mind is going to hire you knowing that is your plan, to get a seniority number, a flow, and then take a 7 year break.
And the Air Force is panicking because they screwed the pooch and abused their junior officers for a decade with impunity. Now that the bill is on the table, they have alligator arms. Screw them and good for everyone voting with their feet. Anyone with a lick of common sense could have seen this coming 5-6 years ago. Any money or dual career stuff they put on the table now is too late. Sorry.
My advice....fish or cut bait. Either decide to stay in or get out and try to affiliate with a reserve unit. Plenty of guys have done it with helo time only. Any way you paint it or try to rationalize it, you are doing the wrong thing. Period.

Synixman

As in call your old Skippers?

e6bpilot

I don't know about other airlines, but Southwest called my last two COs and someone in charge of me from every aviation squadron I had been a part of as well as my department head from my unfortunate stint on the boat.
I don't know what envoy and the other regionals ask for in the way of proof of military service or what they do for reference checks as I have never worked for them.

DROCK

I know a navy guy who got out of service as a LT, got a job at an airline and went reserves. 911 happened and went Full Time Support for the next 20 years and had seniority at the airline the whole time.