rickair7777

If this becomes a routine scam, then any airlines which don't already will start asking for DD-214's.

Unless the sabbatical involves actually retaining the member on AD, which would be legally impossible unless they want to grant him full pay and benefits, then this program would HAVE to involve a transfer to the reserves in some capacity.

That's the ONLY possible way they could ensure a return to AD at the end of the sabbatical. If he's not in the reserves, he's a civilian and the ONLY legal mechanism to compel a civilian to service is the Draft. They could sue a civilian to recoup bonuses, that's about it.

A transfer to the reserves would generate a DD-214 (by law), and there would almost certainly be a discrete separation code indicating the sabbatical...airline employers would learn real fast to start scrutinzing DD-214's. AC status, RC status, DD-214 issuance is all under title 10 so it's not stuff the services can just pencil-whip for their convenience.

rickair7777

The military needs to make their career a viable prospect for people who aspire to have lives and families as opposed to assuming that all officers are seriously aspiring to four stars and joint staff or COCOM command. They need to allow different strokes for different folks.

The airlines need to stop assuming that the military will provide a large core cadre of highly qualified new-hire pilots. Military aircraft numbers are shrinking due to the use of fewer high-tech (expensive) platforms, and manned numbers are shrinking faster.


Like I said, if this becomes common practice airlines (and unions!) will figure out how to push back on what is essentially a loophole in USERRA.

This practice does not benefit the airlines unless the timing is such that they have a surplus of pilots now but know they'll have a serious shortage in X number of years when they get you back. Hypothetically they might benefit from having you on the hook for later. But that's pretty hypothetical...they need pilots NOW not in ten years (well maybe then too).

tbat15

Airline pilots have had to suck up the "juniority" of reserve guys for many years as well. The system appears to have survived intact.

I have never insinuated one should lie in a interview or to a detailer. My posts have stated the opposite.

Family is absolutely more important on a personal level. The military or the airlines ultimately do not care about your personal desires though. The present debate is whether the organizations involved benefit from use of the program, not the individual.

I hope key leaders read this thread. I never would have floated the idea on a open forum if I was trying to conceal anything. Let them consider the merits of letting someone use said program for what I proposed and act accordingly.

I am a current FTS guy and was a traditional reservist before that. Not trying to screw anyone over in the slightest. In fact when I posed this idea to the traditional guys in my squadron, all said they would do it if able.

It's comical for me to see this holier than thou attitude from the reserve guys on this thread. In the last 5 years of being involved with the reserves, I've regularly seen traditional guys pull way shadier "scams" than anything I've proposed here. Don't worry too much about the stellar traditional reserve reputation being tarnished by a program that can only be used by Active/FTS members.

Change is coming though. As scary as it may be to some.

rickair7777

This is more about hate the game, vice the player

I've been vocally opposed to those sorts of shenanigans for a long time, and have debated it here on APC.

IMO USERRA exists to enable folks (typically RC but includes civilians who sign up for AC) to leave their employment to serve, and then return (perhaps multiple times).

It does not exist to enable full-timers (or enterprising TR) to lock in a better seniority number and payscale than other airline pilots and keep it on the back burner until they retire from the AC.


Change is always coming.

AC mentality is accustomed to having priority over all things civilian (see the other thread about the good general). But that is actually not going to work in the private sector in an arena (civilian pilot manpower) where DoD has zero statutory authority. The airlines will "work with" the military right up to the point where it doesn't benefit them, and then they'll tell DoD to pound sand. Want to know more about how that works? Talk to any union leader. The airlines want mil pilots, at their convenience...there is nothing that DoD can give airlines to make them stop hiring their pilots. DoD might be able to influence WHICH pilots get hired by allowing senior staff types to get current in their last year, that's about it. But the ROI for that is nebulous and hard to quantify.

A formal "flow through" program is a remote possibility, but that would be subject to termination for convenience by either DoD or the airline so any participating pilot would be hanging it out on a limb for many years hoping nothing changes.

Maybe SECAF and SECNAV can try to talk congress into allowing STOPLOSS of all AC pilots for the duration of the airline hiring emergency (ie about 20 years). At least that's in their wheelhouse.

sailingfun

Interesting. 911 was only 16 years ago!

sailingfun

There is not a major airline around who will hire you if you tell the truth on your plans in the interview.