We all know that guy.
The difference is 9/11 and furlough. This isn't 2001. Going FTS from a reserve job is one path to a career in the reserves. It is not done now because airline pilots are gainfully employed. The difference between this situation and that one is that this one is scamming two employers. That one is trying to feed their family with the opportunities available due to unfortunate events.
Alright, I am done because anyone who is dumb enough to do this is going to justify it however they want. I have said my piece and it won't change anyone's mind. Have fun explaining yourself to your bosses and military guys in the union. They should get a kick out of it.
Bone for tuna.

 

I have a family to feed too. Why should their quality of life suffer if it doesn't needlessly have to? Your posts reek of "that guy is getting a better deal than me" BS.

It's pretty clear that both sides would have to allow it to happen. So if the Navy is willing to let you go for a bit and a airline is willing to hire, why wouldn't you take the deal? Out of some righteous sense of "well the guys back in the day had it tough so I have to as well".

Quite frankly, using the program to have kids does nothing to better the Navy or improve the defense of this nation and is just as selfish of a reason as trying to further a civilian career.

The point of the program is pretty clear."The purpose of this program is to retain the valuable experience and training of our service members who would otherwise be lost due to separation."

Whether the filler time is used to squirt out rugrats or fly a RJ seems to be transparent. Whether this program can be used for the purpose I originally suggested is not going to be decided by anyone on this message board, but I hope that if I were to ever show up in your cockpit after having done so you wouldn't be a dick to me over this reason alone.

 

Personally I don't find moral equivalency between a Reservist on Extended Active Duty, and a sabbatical-program regAF. USERRA was intended for the former. Not a distinction without a difference, in my book. It kinda scoffs at the SELRES folks to be frank.

As to Navy FTS (whose closest equivalent would be the AGR in the Chair Force), not everybody is doing it to hide from airline juniority. Some of us consider our ARC F/T work a legitimate career on its own merits. I know Reserve full time work can be the toilet paper du jour for the airline fanboi crowd, but let's stay classy San Diego...

That said, yes, we all know the furlough Lost Decade guy who got to 7200 AD points in the Reserves. Most did so above water. Others? They fiddled with the orders to ensure they were USERRA-counter exempt a bit too liberally for my taste. but that's a hate the game not the playa' kind of thing I suppose. It's clear not everybody on here sees eye to eye on this topic, and that IS a problem imo when it comes to the mixed company of civilian-only airline peers. We're all rent seekers in life, some more than others. Certainly why we can't have nice things. I digress...

 

If someone is already in the airlines and trying to go for the air guard would this law not cover the leave?

 

I absolutely had to have a hard separation date at the interview, not sure if they wanted the DD214 once I got it and reported to training (I think they did). I could see a regional buying off on your plan, but not a major. Why would they? I would highly recommend trying to get to a fixed wing squadron as your helo time isn't going to count for much.

 

I've seen this pulled off successfully in the last month.

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It can happen. An FTS is *technically* still a reservist although not really IMO. I also know reserve frogmen who were airline pilots and didn't see a cockpit for 10+ years too. But those guys didn't plan it that way, war kind of happened.

If somebody gets furloughed and then is sheltered by USERRA, IMO they can go back whenever they want and at their convenience, no hard spot there either.

But premeditating a lengthy return to regular AD for the sole purpose of gaining massive seniority is a bit over the top. In addition to hosing over all those senior to you, it's going to create a VERY bad impression of reserves in the mind of anyone who learns of this...ESPECIALLY if it becomes common practice. And the sad thing is the reserves will take the heat, but this has nothing to do with us! It would be AC people (who may not actually give a rip about reserves anyway).

The other biggy...if this becomes routine, the airlines will almost certainly push back with congress and get USERRA changed. Not only that but they might get to change a few other things while they're at it

 

I don't think it's an issue with you getting a good deal, it's an issue with...

1) Other pilots sucking up your juniority for many, many years.

2) Tarnishing the image of reserves in the eyes of airlines. making it hard to get hired, and generating increased pressure and harassment.



The airlines will most certainly not "allow it to happen". If they know that's your plan, they won't hire you. Are you going to lie to them at the interview? Try telling them your plan up front...

No, family is far more important in the grand scheme than career-specifics. Constant deployments, IA's, and high-workload fast-track jobs make it really hard to raise little kids (especially for women). People talked, voted with their feet and the navy listened.

Starting or trying a different career, or even just working a regular civvy job is not a bad thing if it makes the member happy, fulfilled, saves the marriage, etc.

The issue here is the gross manipulation of the seniority system (hurts other pilots), gross manipulation of the associated pay scale (hurts the company), and the hate, discontent, and danger to USERRA this will generate.

Be careful... airline aviation is a very small community (smaller than the navy by a large margin). There are key leaders from unions, management, and the guard/reserves on here every day.

There would be a danger of that if this becomes routine practice and causes USERRA to be rolled back, harming all of us traditional reservists. But maybe as regular AC that's not something you even care about.

 

The getting a job on sabbatical part, or the returning seven years later part?

 

Sabbatical.

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