DAL 2010 USERRA Letter
08-03-2019 | 08:26 AM
#11
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
For us, it's based on the type of order you are on. On the last few "deployments," our choice has been 12304b (invol) or 12301d (vol) orders. I have found the source document provided by our commanders/personnel during our spinup to our last trip, I'd be happy to send it to you. It clearly shows that 12304b (involuntary Combatant Command Mission Support) does not meet eligibility requirements for Post 9/11 GI Bill. In fact, wrt to TAMP, early retirement credit and GI Bill, they're treated the same as AT orders.
Lucky you. We essentially get the dubious choice of picking the red pill or blue pill. They put the carrot in front of voluntary because then it doesn't count for dwell purposes. So they get you for this deployment, but you remain eligible for later invols. Anyway, same document mentioned above, shows invol orders are not eligible for early retirement credit.
Supposedly they're "fixing" it, but the checks been in the mail for over 5 years...
In my ANG fighter squadron, there isn't a single pilot on continuous orders that are USERRA exempt. Even with an alert mission on base (O.N.E.), we have zero exempt orders. But sure stat tours at NGB and various other random assignments may get you exempt orders.
Honestly, wrt to exemption, I couldn't care less for me. I have have absolutely zero desire to go back on full time orders for anything other than squadron TDYs and our deployments. But I can see a problem looming as many of our guys are running out of USERRA time not the mention the desire to put up with all the added BS that continues to stack up. Basically, as with many other things in life, the Commanders up high, don't see it as a problem because we're "plugging the holes in the damn," for now...
Lucky you. We essentially get the dubious choice of picking the red pill or blue pill. They put the carrot in front of voluntary because then it doesn't count for dwell purposes. So they get you for this deployment, but you remain eligible for later invols. Anyway, same document mentioned above, shows invol orders are not eligible for early retirement credit.
Supposedly they're "fixing" it, but the checks been in the mail for over 5 years...
In my ANG fighter squadron, there isn't a single pilot on continuous orders that are USERRA exempt. Even with an alert mission on base (O.N.E.), we have zero exempt orders. But sure stat tours at NGB and various other random assignments may get you exempt orders.
Honestly, wrt to exemption, I couldn't care less for me. I have have absolutely zero desire to go back on full time orders for anything other than squadron TDYs and our deployments. But I can see a problem looming as many of our guys are running out of USERRA time not the mention the desire to put up with all the added BS that continues to stack up. Basically, as with many other things in life, the Commanders up high, don't see it as a problem because we're "plugging the holes in the damn," for now...
OK, guard can certainly be different than federal reserves, but I always understood that if on federal orders, you got federal bennies. Strange.
08-04-2019 | 04:55 PM
#12
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08-04-2019 | 09:40 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined: May 2013
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From: No Hats No Jackets No PAX
Most Stat Tours at the NGB/ANGRC were formerly USERRA Exempt up until May of 2015. Airline staff who came up in 2014 helped push that easy button, which deleted the “Exempt” and now your Stat tour began to count against the 5 year clock. We lost a lot of our airline folks who were near the 5 year limit and managed to land a Stat Tour to stop the clock in order to gain more retirement points or finalize an active duty retirement. That strategy worked up until mid 2015. Guillotine came down and forced many back to their airlines. Only those who had secured “Exception To Policy” were able to continue. All sorts of small print must be read before you sign at the dotted line. Loop holes have been tightening for years.
08-05-2019 | 06:53 AM
#14
Banned
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 384
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The healthcare and GI Bill issues have already been fixed. The main remaining discrepancy is the early retirement.
https://www.ngaus.org/legislation/pr...-12304b-orders
08-05-2019 | 06:54 AM
#15
Banned
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 384
Likes: 1
Tried digging up the e-mail from our last TSP, it had the breakdown, but I can't seem to find it. There were one or two more, but below is from memory.
Invol (12304b)
- USERRA exemption
- No early retirement credit
- No TAMP
- No Post 9/11 GI Bill credit
Vol (12301d)
- No USERRA exmption
- Early retirement credit
- TAMP
- Post 9/11 GI Bill Credit
Invol (12304b)
- USERRA exemption
- No early retirement credit
- No TAMP
- No Post 9/11 GI Bill credit
Vol (12301d)
- No USERRA exmption
- Early retirement credit
- TAMP
- Post 9/11 GI Bill Credit
08-05-2019 | 10:40 AM
#16
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,436
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Noice!! Thanks for the link above, that's good to hear. Takes a little bit of the sting out deploying to go fly training missions half way around the world for four months. Any words on if the retirement credit timeline and if will be backdated? I'd be surprised if they do, they generally only back date stuff when they're taking stuff, not giving. Anyway, we've been told checks in the mail for the previous two deployments.
08-05-2019 | 04:35 PM
#17
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Center seat, doing loops to music
08-05-2019 | 09:05 PM
#18
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
08-05-2019 | 09:08 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Center seat, doing loops to music
08-05-2019 | 09:14 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,899
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From: Leftof longitudinal
At the airline I'm employed very few out that long. One went ART and quit as the state is now your USERRA employer then years later asked if possible to be reemployed. Nope. Many AGR folks that bump right up to the 5 year limit. A few out with exemptions for a few rare tours pretty long. One received a Sec USAF exemption. Delta pilots apparently had a great deal prior to 2010.
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