yeah, "mileage will vary" for sure, and I'm being insufferably euphemistic. I'm not sure what details you're referring to wrt what led those cases to terminations/non-judicial punishments, vis a vis the assumptions the original poster made when he asked the question. But in the corner of the DoD where I've been for the past 17 years, there's a heck more than 5 people actively flying for the airlines as AGRs, and not one case is the same as the other. That's a mouthful already; there's other practices corollary to that which hasn't even been touched by this thread which are more egregious to me, but I don't feel comfortable further talking about it publicly.

--brk brk---

BL, it's not the lost decade anymore, and there's a lot more speeding going on out there in dual-hatted land than most ingenues on here appear to be aware of. People ask me all the time, how come for a non-airline guy I know so much about 121 topics/dabble in them? Well, that's because when you have friends like these, your full time mil job becomes symbiotic to it, to say nothing of your own career progression becoming collateral by the ever cyclical and self-interested tides of boomeranging labor arbitragers who resemble the remark. To wit, this labor arbitrage is not victimless, and it's not just civilian-only 121 coworkers who fall in the blast radius. Now back to minding my own business and pretending I don't see nothing.

 

I was never talking about doing it without permission. Neither was the OP. The whole premise of this was hypothetically how hard would it be to get permission and do it legit? If you try to game the system on the downlow, you're going to get two different books thrown at you, from two directions.

How many times do I have to say that?

 

It’s allowed… as long as it is approved. Although I can’t really see why either party would want to in the case of an AGR that is in a flying role, given that both activities would limit the other.

Specifically, the ANG AGR program is governed by ANGI 36-101, which does allow outside employment with the caveat of approval and not violating the JER (which being a part-time 121 pilot likely would not). As far the Army NG/AGR program, no idea there, but I don’t think that is what the OP was referencing.

 

Is that something you just heard through the grapevine, or did you actually see it in writing? Was this ran past a JAG?



Do you have a reference for that? I've never read, nor did my JAG advise that any of my guys working outside employment must be in a leave status to do so.



Not all orders are the same. As an example, with our alert guys, they earn A LOT of passes by sitting 24 hours shifts on weekends. They get lots of time off due to our JAG/state approved pass policy. It wouldn't be all that hard to schedule around work, though I think only on the short term...it call catches up over time.



This I can't disagree with and a sticking point that I wondered about. In the end, like all line of duties (the ones I've done anyway), it's very subjective and up to a line of CC's/investigating officers to make the call and HHQ to approve or deny.



Lots of places do not have a defined "local area," I know we never did.



Depends on the job. If someone was going to miss an alert, they could easily work a trade with a squadron mate. Our guys constantly swap their alert days for conflicts that pop up. This actually isn't all that hard to deal with. The bigger issue here is not breaking the leave reg wrt consecutive days off.



Valid point...can get very sticky.



All the above said, I'm with you here. The CC has the ability to stop it all and I can't see a world where this is a great idea as a long term solution. With our alert/scheduling policy, I'd wager that my old squadron has the best schedule to even attempt such a thing and I just don't see it as a great idea. Eventually your scheduling gymnastics will catch up to you and your co-workers will grow tired of bailing you out. As a young guy, I saw situations like this cause morale/unit cohesion issues.

Furthermore, I just don't see why someone would want to do this. I get first year pay sucks, but it's truly temporary and still insanely good pay. At some point you'll become a "two-job loser," where you end up just making both of your bosses mad lol. My humble recommendation is to either be a true part-timer or drop mloa, makes life so much easier.



The OP specifically mentioned with approval on both ends.



If they lost their jobs and received A15's, then they clearly didn't have the proper approvals, because it can be done.

 

I can see a guy doing it if they have zero USERRA time left.

 

If one were to start at Southwest, would it be better to drop mil leave during the first few days of training to start seniority, or actually get all the way through IOE. I might not have the liberty in getting a few months off for a while. Asking for a friend

 

You definitely don’t want to go on mil leave during training. Complete OE and maybe even consolidation first.

 

You can take mil leave whenever you need to. There are better ways to handle it rather than drop it during training, but sometimes duty calls. If you can plan it, Id get indoc and Sims complete at the least. OE would be great. But if that isn't in the cards time wise, than do what you need to do. As long as you are taking legal military leave, you are good to go.

 

For your own benefit, try really hard to be free of mil obligations for the entire training training footprint including OE. Try to consolidate if possible, otherwise you'll need to do another sim checkride after 3-4 months.

If you can't do that, then yeah I'd bang out as early in training as possible. Better to start over from scratch than to interrupt your training.

The problem with an interruption is that if it's short enough they can just pick you back up where you left which will not be fun unless you were able to stay very much in the books while on leave. If you subsequently flunk out, you're on probation with no recourse.

They might be kind and accommodating, but if they think you're gaming the system they can just throw you to the wolves. USERRA does not grant you extra remedial training when returning from mil duty, they can simply comply with FAA/AQP rules.

 

Most airlines ask you upfront to insure you have 3 or 4 months free of all obligations before starting training. You can drop military orders on day one and leave but you are painting a big target on your back.