ERAUdude

Hey guys!
I was talking with an American pilot a few days back and he suggested that I join an AFRES unit and work part time along with a regional job after CFI-ing for a little while. How does working as an AF pilot play in to working as a civilian airline pilot? When I get the time, my #1 regional choice is XJET. Hopefully being based in ONT or LAX. Commuting is not something that I'd be too fond of so if I joined with a reserve unit, I'd hope for the KC-135 or C-17 unit out of March ARB. What steps will I have to go through to achieve flying for the reserves? If out of some fluke I wash out, will I be put into another job? Or, could I just walk away? What benefits come with working military and civilian? Once in, do I get to pick where I want to go and what I want to fly?

blastoff

1. You get hired by a specific unit from the beginning, so if you get hired at March you will be flying the KC-135 or C-17 (depending on which Squadron hires you). You will go to UPT the envy of your class, since you will know your base and airframe long before your active duty classmates.

2. If you wash out, you will be out of the Air Force (if you want). The Air Force doesn't need officers that aren't in crew positions.

3. Benefits: the best and worse of both. When you get sick of one, work more for the other. If you're furloughed, you still have your reserve job and can possibly go full time so you're not out on the street. Most importantly, Serving your country.

4. Getting hired: Get your degree, have an officer accessions recruiter start your hiring package and then start meeting with Squadron Ops Officers. For more information, baseops.net (direct link http://www.baseops.net/archive/archiveupt.html)and wantscheck.com have a wealth of information about getting a pilot slot.

Triumph

I'm in that reserve unit out of march, and there are some of us younger pilots that do fly for regionals as well as do the reserve thing. Baseops has a good bit of info for the specifics on what the process is to get a flying spot in reserves or active duty. But, before any of that you need to have a 4 year degree. So to answer some of those other questions you have....

If you washed out of training, you would most likely be released from your commitment ( i think), or maybe put on inactive status We dont' have much need for you if you can't fly for us.

One of the many benefits of the having the military thing is that if you should come across some rough times at your civilian job, you can usually find a little extra compensation with the military flying.
If you come to fly for the reserves, you will fly whatever that unit that hired you flies. So, obviously you'd want to do some research. The reserves works a little different than active duty, so again do some research on that topic. You apply and interview at units that have the type of airplanes that you'd like to fly, and are in the location that you'd like to live, because when they hire you, that's where you'll be (in most cases).
Any other questions, ask away...

hindsight2020

Something to consider since you brought up commutes and job prospects:

In SOME Guard/Reserve units that fly airframes like the C-17 you will also likely to be put on seasoning orders for about a whole year after you're done with UPT and initial qualification training. The kind of money you'll be making on said year (AD pay just like you did during UPT and FTU) will be VERY comfortable and will make you think twice about working for a regional if you could swing the bumming/troughing lifestyle once you get off orders. Of course that possibility is entirely dependent on the particular unit's money pot (availability of man days) and the competition, and pecking order for said days.

Also, the option to work a regional job and a guard/reserve gig is not such a simple/obvious choice either. If your unit and your assigned domicile at the regional are different (highly likely), then you'll have to make a determination on where you're physically going to live. There are pros and cons to either choice, but as a young guy, without enough time to go to a major, commuting to the unit is not a great idea. Currency usually becomes an issue for dudes who commute to the unit, and when you throw in variables such as Wx cancels at the unit, it makes for a scheduling hassle every month. If you think about it, if you're gone from home a lot at the regional as it is, adding several trips to the unit effectively puts you at less than 6 days at home, most weekends gone included.

On the other hand, if you do live in the unit city and commute to the regional..well, good luck with that too. Commuting to a reserve line at a regional is not most civilian types' cup of tea, imagine what it can be to a dude with 2 jobs.... A dude trying it at my unit cost him more to go to work at the regional than what he brought home from it.

I bring all of this up because you said you were not too fond of commutes. I'll be finishing training in the spring and I am a low-time dude, and decided to bum instead of trying to work for a regional. The thought of commuting to reserve at a regional (gone from home) for effectively less than what I can make at McDonalds (in which I would be at home every night mind you)working PART-TIME (holy sh$t), when you account for all the mil leave and the reduced min guarantee, made me decide bumming was way a better deal. Of course things can change and the money pot can run dry at the unit, but if that happens I would still take some schmuck desk job in town and continue to fly part-time for the unit and sleep on my own bed rather than be gone half the year for what I can make at the corner Mickey Ds at home.

My advice, don't commute. Of course that would be sound advice if you could snag a major job and could effectively move to that domicile and min run the guard job. But for a regional, I'd say if you can snag a guard/reserve job stay in the unit city and just bum, forego the regionals altogether, the upgrade time is competitive at the unit and most regionals won't beat it. Yeah the log book won't fatten up as quick, but what's two years in seniority (for a job without lateral career options) when you're taking a paycut anyways. Maximize your time in your own bed, you're paying for it might as well use it. Good luck man.

ERAUdude

Thanks for the replies guys! I have a few more questions:

-What would be the minimum commitment?
-About how long to upgrade?
-If I do fly for a regional and reserves part time, when would I fly and what sort of things would I do on those flights?
-Do the reserves get called up for deployment?
-Say I do a 4 day trip(civilian) then have 3 days off, am I at the base those 3 days flying?
-What's the pay like?
-How long will it take to actually start flying the plane I'm assigned in the reserves?

hindsight2020

-What would be the minimum commitment?
-- Ten years from UPT graduation.

-About how long to upgrade?
-- About 2 years +/- 6 months.

-If I do fly for a regional and reserves part time, when would I fly and what sort of things would I do on those flights?

Depends on the airframe. Most units have a weekly flying schedule, to include certain night flight schedules. This is for local training and does not include TDYs, mobilizations and any other kind of overseas type of excercises some folks at the unit may be involved with/volunteer for. I can't speak for all airframes but as far as the co-pilot side, you know, standard (gear, blame for anybody's bad landing/airmanship, paperwork qweep, and radios). All that aside, we get less stick time than co-pilots at the airlines (where it's mostly every other leg), at least from my experience at the schoolhouse. Of course that's more AC dependent than anything. The ACs and IPs of course get beaucoup stick time. Overall it's more relaxed on the Reserves side than on AD though, so you might still get more stick time as a co on a Guard/Reserve unit than if you were AD. The reserve QOL after chocks in is, of course, diametrically better.

-Do the reserves get called up for deployment?

Yep. Ops tempo depends on unit, airframe, taskings and the alignment of the moon. It all depends. If you're asking about non-voluntary mobilization, not happening much that I know of. Everything so far has been on a voluntary basis; so it's not the flying club of the 90s but it's not the Army "Reserve" either. Unless another 9/11 happens I dont foresee any non-vol tasking popping up. Things will continue to cool down with the next administration, but so will the availability of jobs.

-Say I do a 4 day trip(civilian) then have 3 days off, am I at the base those 3 days flying?

Not necessarily. You can request (more like tell them) mil leave to attend to your military commitments. Most units want you there on UTA or "drill weekend", so if you had a trip then you would request mil leave to attend, essentially dropping that trip at the airline. Or you may choose to complete your training during your days off at the airline, where your description of "3 days flying at the base' would be more acurate. Good luck with that though, from a QOL perspective. Ballpark, most people who do the regionals drop trips because it pays more per day to work at the unit than at the regional, and still want some semblance of a life. Most major carrier types do the opposite, they lose money when they mil drop to work at the unit, so you might see those types do their events on days off. Then again they may still want QOL and mil drop trips at the airline at a loss but to retain days off. Everybody has a priority when it comes to those iterations. Also most units have a plan for the upcoming month somewhat in advance so people can plan ahead, particularly with the airline dudes.

-What's the pay like?

Once again, depends. The absolute minimum guarantee for a pilot in the guard/reserve is 48 drill periods, 48 Training periods, 14 days of annual training. That's about 13K for a 1LT married. Everybody does more than the min though, so depending on how much extra sh$t you do then the pay goes up from there. How many man days you get, TDY you volunteer for, if you get put on orders, etc etc is up to you and the unit, and of course the pecking order at said unit as well. As a 1LT if you make about 40-45K you had a great year..that's about 4 man days a week plus the guaranteed periods, which you won't get [4 man days/wk] if there's more than one of ya fighting for the same pot, but can be attainable. If you can find a set of orders (like for a year) you're set then, as it is AD pay without the AD qweep. There are also the full-time jobs at the unit; hard to come by, unlikely for a new guy to be considered for them, but are federal GS scale jobs along with all the trimmings of govt cheddar jobs. You can make 6 figures in less than 10 years of working that position and be home every night. You'll have to fight me too for one of those though (yummm cheddar..). That's the jist of it.

-How long will it take to actually start flying the plane I'm assigned in the reserves?

Initial qual in the aircraft will be about 0 months through 1 year after UPT graduation depending on many factors. UPT dates could be zero months to a year+ from commissioning date, and commissioning date could be 1.5 months through 2 years+ from hire date. So plan accordingly.

blastoff

I will answer some of your questions directly from what January 08 looks like for me. Keep in mind I'm a KC-135 guy, and because of training requirements specific to the KC-135, I can stay current in my airframe by flying one sortie a month (something you can't do in most other airframes), but I do more anyways because I like the flying and the money. C-17 you will be expected to be there more.

Fly whenever you want, as long as you help your (Reserve) scheduler out when he's shorthanded every once in a while (In return he'll help you out). Usually during the weekdays, there are "local" sorties every day...these are very routine practice air refuelings where you and your reciever (usually a C-17) knock out your training requirements for the month. There are several long range trips or "TDY's" a month, mostly to fun places. You make A LOT of extra money on these trips because of Per Diem. I'm taking a 10 day trip in the middle of the month...in my unit, you aren't told to go on a trip, you're usually competing with other guys who want to go, begging your scheduler to let you go (especially as a 1st or 2nd Lieutenant).

That's why we exist. In fact, the majority of the Air Force's KC-135 fleet is in the Guard and Reserves. Usually there are enough volunteers that no one is forced to go, unless the entire unit is activated. Most people WANT to go because you will make extra money, tax free, and get to see a little bit of the fight.

Only if you want to. I have 4 days off at the end of January and will only commit one of those days to my unit. You can keep all of your days off from your civilian job by taking military leave from your airline...this can be counter productive, as most airlines deduct pay for the days you are gone on military leave, but you will still make more money at your unit that day than your airline deducts from your paycheck. I'm taking military leave this weekend to go to my drill weekend, so two days were dropped from my civilian schedule this week (I was supposed to be on Thursday-Monday). I will make twice as much money this weekend than if I had flown for my airline.

Much Much more than my Regional Airline First Year FO pay.

ERAUdude

Thank you so much for all the responses guys! Really helps out a lot.

WAFP

I am going to throw my $.02 in here...

Beyond everything that you have asked about (all very good questions, by the way), the biggest complaint from the people that I work with (Active Duty), and even myself, is the lack of control over your life. The reserve/airline lifestyle allows you the freedom (past the first year or two in the airline, when you'll be a newbie) to dictate your schedule in a far better manner than AD will, ever.

You are choosing the correct path, in my humble opinion, and if I had "Hindsight being 20/20" then I would have applied for the reserve job and then shot for the airlines. Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is that many reserve folks want to help you get into the airline that you choose. You have been "HIRED" by that unit, therefore, they probably like you and want to help you.

Good luck, I really believe that you are working down the best path

ERAUdude

Thanks for the post WAFP. I'm thinking after I instruct here at Riddle for a little bit, I'll head back home to So. Cal, continue instructing out there while trying to mingle my way into the 452nd at March. If I do get the opportunity, then after finishing up training, hopefully get on with XJET. Is this advisable? Or, would you consider getting on with the airline first, then the reserves after and just taking some leave to do training?